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Post by ex member on May 14, 2005 5:34:40 GMT -5
I have something to say on this issue. I am a MVS. My 16 yr old cousin Amanda was murdered in March 2004. See: In Loving Memory: Amanda Greenwell: www.geocities.com/foramandagreenwellI have chosen to walk thru life in forgiveness and compassion. I am not alone in my walk, see also: Murder Victim Famlies for Reconciliation www.mvfr.org/Many people have often asked me what Amandas father would think or feel if he knew about my relationship with Lonnie Pursley, a convicted murderer, who I wrote to and developed a strong friendship with, who was executed on May 3, 2005. The best way I can describe how Rick, Amanda's father feels about this is by posting an email I received from him this week after I created a memorial webpage for Lonnie: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rickynxxxxxxx.com Add to Address Book Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 22:18:52 EDT Subject: cuz To: ex member@yahoo.com I saw Lonnies web site its beautiful. I seen the drawings and noticed a unicorn. Amanda loved unicorns! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Not all MVS's choose to live with the hatred and or anger that some others do. It is a personal choice. While I do believe that many of those who sit on death row or in our prisons that committed some of the most horrific and henious acts are not able to ever live in our society again, I do not believe they deserve death, no one deserves that. It is not up to us to choose who should live and who should die, and if it was to be up to us we should be dispensing that law equally and we do not do that. Many are killed by the state while there are thousands sitting in jail for acts even more horrific than that of the one who has been put to death. Some do not in my opinion even deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison without the possibility of parole, some ARE able to change, rehabilitate. Many times I hear how the Pro-Death Penalty people are very protective of MVS's. And I hear how everyone who befriends a condemned man/woman should first think of the victim and their families. They can have their views, but they cannot speak for ALL victims and their familes because I am not alone in how I feel, there are thousands of others who freely and openly share my beliefs and views, and I'm sure many more who share them but do not voice them. If we were not executing these men/women, you would not be seeing a thread such as this as there would be no need. I know I would have never written to an inmate in the first place if there was no such thing as a death sentence. We write because they have been given the ultimate punishment according to our laws and we feel our laws desperately need to be changed. We write to let them know that the world IS watching and we do not agree with what is being done to them. To let them know they are not alone.
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Post by catskillz on May 14, 2005 6:12:34 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this, i think it's very admirable of both of u.
No one is the same, neither victims nor prisoners!
Best, catz.
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angel
Doin' Time
Posts: 65
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Post by angel on May 14, 2005 8:12:42 GMT -5
I wrote because i'd been researching the dp for years, and was shocked at the realization that is was not equally applied for one, and because of the innocents freed from death row. I was not looking for a boyfriend or anything like that, in fact, I let a Christian pen pal site send me the address of someone on death row. This person became my very best friend! What a shock it was to have my attitude then, of "i'm going to help someone else" only to realize that he helped me far more! I am against the death penalty for many reasons, if we are to have it, it should be applied equally and farily and it is not. The whole system is flawed and needs to be abolished.
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Post by tulla63 on May 14, 2005 8:39:13 GMT -5
This is the most powerful statement I've heard from a person who has been hit so hard by crime!! I have been hit by crime myself - also violent crime, but nothing that didn't mean I was well again after a couple of weeks. I know I cannot even imagine what this man - AND you Pam - have been going through.
I AM FULL OF ADMIRATION FOR THE BOTH OF YOU!!!
Love, Turid
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Post by MoonRiver on May 14, 2005 12:33:28 GMT -5
Dear ex member
I've been reading many of your posts and this thread is exceptional. You're a true soldier of love and compassion. I'm so sorry you've experienced all you've endured thus far, but as you say, your faith just keeps you going.
It's when 'outsiders' take the time to get a little more involved and read these stories on the 'inside' that we begin to learn so much more. I support life; and yet I also support justice.
Mistakes happen on both sides of the line; regrets must be many and time doesn't give back. And you seem to give so much of yourself. Your posts, (and many others here), are inspiring.
In my prayers,
Moon.
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Mo-DAWG
Settlin' In
Yes... this is the real Mo-DAWG ..
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Post by Mo-DAWG on May 14, 2005 12:53:07 GMT -5
I have something to say on this issue. I am a MVS. My 16 yr old cousin Amanda was murdered in March 2004. See: In Loving Memory: Amanda Greenwell: www.geocities.com/foramandagreenwellI have chosen to walk thru life in forgiveness and compassion. I am not alone in my walk, see also: Murder Victim Famlies for Reconciliation www.mvfr.org/Many people have often asked me what Amandas father would think or feel if he knew about my relationship with Lonnie Pursley, a convicted murderer, who I wrote to, developed a relationship with and untimately fell deeply in love with, who was executed on May 3, 2005. The best way I can describe how Rick, Amanda's father feels about this is by posting an email I received from him this week after I created a memorial webpage for Lonnie: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rickynxxxxxxx.com Add to Address Book Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 22:18:52 EDT Subject: cuz To: ex member@yahoo.com I saw Lonnies web site its beautiful. I seen the drawings and noticed a unicorn. Amanda loved unicorns! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Not all MVS's choose to live with the hatred and or anger that some others do. It is a personal choice. While I do believe that many of those who sit on death row or in our prisons that committed some of the most horrific and henious acts are not able to ever live in our society again, I do not believe they deserve death, no one deserves that. It is not up to us to choose who should live and who should die, and if it was to be up to us we should be dispensing that law equally and we do not do that. Many are killed by the state while there are thousands sitting in jail for acts even more horrific than that of the one who has been put to death. Some do not in my opinion even deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison without the possibility of parole, some ARE able to change, rehabilitate. Many times I hear how the Pro-Death Penalty people are very protective of MVS's. And I hear how everyone who befriends a condemned man/woman should first think of the victim and their families. They can have their views, but they cannot speak for ALL victims and their familes because I am not alone in how I feel, there are thousands of others who freely and openly share my beliefs and views, and I'm sure many more who share them but do not voice them. If we were not executing these men/women, you would not be seeing a thread such as this as there would be no need. I know I would have never written to an inmate in the first place if there was no such thing as a death sentence. We write because they have been given the ultimate punishment according to our laws and we feel our laws desperately need to be changed. We write to let them know that the world IS watching and we do not agree with what is being done to them. To let them know they are not alone. dear Pameeee, thank you so much for posting this thread..i thought of writing you much more here but then i decided to rather PM you to say sum more words.... hugs, Mo-DAWG
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Post by tulla63 on May 14, 2005 13:42:13 GMT -5
Hi,
My first thought was that this piece should have been sent to a newspaper, but considered the privacy of the matters, I didn't say anything about that anyway.
But it sure is a piece that should be read by the people over at Justice for All!!
Love, Turid
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Post by ex member on May 14, 2005 13:59:55 GMT -5
I did post it on the pro-death penalty site - under the pen pal thread and also under the banning eurostar thread.. I will keep posting it until they stop bashing people who write to inmates.. (guess it's gonna be posted alot) their continual bashing of something they know NOTHING about really disturbs me. They let their hate and anger rule them / in the bible in matthew 6:14&15 it says we must forgive in order for our father to forgive us. I'm not meaning to get religious here but my faith is strong and this is what I must believe to make it through each and every day. I know Amanda and Lonnie both are up there in Heaven preparing a place beside them for those of us who love them. My faith is what is pulling me through each day.
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Post by ex member on May 14, 2005 14:06:39 GMT -5
Hi, My first thought was that this piece should have been sent to a newspaper, but considered the privacy of the matters, I didn't say anything about that anyway. But it sure is a piece that should be read by the people over at Justice for All!! Love, Turid PS... Why send it to a newspaper where only a small amout of readers will view it? I posted here where ALL THE WORLD can see it!
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Post by tulla63 on May 14, 2005 14:12:20 GMT -5
PS... Why send it to a newspaper where only a small amout of readers will view it? I posted here where ALL THE WORLD can see it! You're sooooooo right!! ;D Hug, Turid
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Post by sally104 on May 14, 2005 23:17:56 GMT -5
Hav you thought of doing this as a seperate thread? I am a pro, who thinks whether people write to inmates is irrelevant to the death penalty debate. I wouldnt tdo it myself, but I am not critical of those who do. I did post it on the pro-death penalty site - under the pen pal thread and also under the banning eurostar thread.. I will keep posting it until they stop bashing people who write to inmates.. (guess it's gonna be posted alot) their continual bashing of something they know NOTHING about really disturbs me. They let their hate and anger rule them / in the bible in matthew 6:14&15 it says we must forgive in order for our father to forgive us. I'm not meaning to get religious here but my faith is strong and this is what I must believe to make it through each and every day. I know Amanda and Lonnie both are up there in Heaven preparing a place beside them for those of us who love them. My faith is what is pulling me through each day.
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Post by mikebook on May 14, 2005 23:23:32 GMT -5
I would not write to one either. I am not critical at all to people that do decide to write. It is their right and privildege to do so. I am amazed by people that marry inmates, either on or off death row. Not being able to be with my wife would drive me crazy. I cannot understand that at all.
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Post by CCADP on May 14, 2005 23:55:43 GMT -5
Before starting this work; my husband Dave and I (dave parkinson who posts here too; with whom I started the CCADP in 1998) probably shared the same preconcieved notions of people who would get involved with someone on death row. (a lot of the people I know who have done so; have told me they themselves would have felt the same way at one point!)... ""Before this, I would have said anyone who did this was a fruit cake," says Karen Richey, referring to the decade-long relationship she's nurtured with Kenny Richey,.." - I still have difficulty - as some one who has never been in that position; explaining the relationships some have formed with prisoners on our pages; when media asks...it can be hard to explain; but like I say - we have all seen relationships in the free world where you could say - why on earth are they together? What does she/he see in him/her - and who can say....I certainly can't explain some! But - as I describe below; media and others are often shocked to meet some of these women; often intelligent; professional; sincere, attractive women. (far from the stereotype ). This is an exchange via email I had with a reporter/research for 60 minutes / CBS news with Dan Rather. They had contacted CCADP seeking our help in contacting people who had met and married prisoners while they were on Death Row. I sent several women (including many from this page) to speak with him; and then I sent him this note : EMAIL FROM CCADP to CBS NEWS / 60 MINS "...Many of them meet through our site - (again I am really only familiar with the death row prisoners) . I know when it comes to death row anyway;many of those women have become romantically involved after beginning correspondence with prisoners who are not well known; people who have been on DR 15 years or more and whom there is little noteriety around, really or little public interest in. In some cases perhaps its misplaced emotion, for example particularly for women from Europe who begin to write to these prisoners; in the eyes of most Europeans the death penalty is a grevious human rights abuse; and for that reason alone they feel sympathy for someone in that position that they might think of as love. In other cases, the relationship seems to fit into no ones pre-judgement of a prisoner relationship or a prisoner wife. Wherever human beings are; wherever they meet; feelings can grow. In meeting and `speaking with many of these women over the years; (and many media have said the same thing to me) is its amazing when you look into it; just how normal and 'not crazy' many of these women are. They may want their voices heard; but they fear being painted with that old 'death row groupie' brush; which in some cases may be true; but it definately is not so in others. www.garyetheridge.com is a page by a German woman Claudia who met and married Texas death row prisoner Gary Etheridge that she met on our page. He was later executed; and an hour before he was he wrote us ths from the death house : Gary's final letter to the CCADP Walls Unit Death house Dear Dave and Tracy,Here at the Walls, left Claudia at Polunski ... hard to keep everything brave and strong ... what a beautiful woman my wife is ... I am deeply grateful you guys hooked us up and it has been true life in this system of death - to share with my sweet Claudia has been the very best years of my life. Thank you for taking care of Claudia because she healed me and made me strong. I encourage you to continue to fight the good fight, you do make a world of difference and I am not sure what else to say but thank you. God bless You. Love & Respects Gary Etheridge Anyway; we are sort of the 'meeting point' for people from around the world who wish to write death row prisoners; for whatever reason. And I''d like to reiterate that many, many people who use our site and decide to write to prisoners are people like Amnesty activists, church groups, human rights activists; etc; who certainly are not writing to death row prisoners for romantic reasons,but rather to be engage in some kind of DIRECT activism against the death penalty where they may feel they can make the most difference. We'd be glad to continue helping on this; feel free to ask any questions. Tracy Lamourie, CCADP and he said : Many thanks. I share your reaction to these women even from the little I know and few conversations that I have had. It's extraordinary...but then again so are so many love stories. Permit me to stay in touch. Thanks. and I have heard this from lots of media; writers, and documentary film-makers.
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Post by CCADP on May 15, 2005 0:00:29 GMT -5
there was an article in a CT paper a few days before the Ross execution - the first half of the article was the standard article about flakes who write to serial killers because they are serial killers (as opposed to activists who write to prisoners for other reasons or penpals who have become emotionally attached.) ...that part was standard; referring women who seem emotionally disturbed and then the article segues into the portion where I was interviewed as the CCADP spokesperson on how people meet at our site and Karen Richey (see articles on Ken Richey in the news section or at the friendly neighborhood library - and Nicole who is a regular on this board... The article : Finding Love Behind Bars - The Hartford « Thread started on: Today at 08:47am »<br>Finding Love Behind Bars The Allure Of Smooth-Talking Sociopaths Can Lead Many Women Into Prison Romance, Even Marriage May 9, 2005 By JOHN JURGENSEN, The Hartford Courant One of the most surprising twists in the legal road toward the execution of Connecticut serial killer Michael Ross has been the revelation that he's in love. Although it unfolded at a distance or under prison supervision, Ross' relationship with an Oklahoma woman has included some of the usual milestones of romance, including yearning letters and phone calls, a breakup and reconciliation, even talk of marriage. For those baffled by how Susan Powers could fall for a confessed rapist and killer, it might be equally surprising to learn that other people have made similar choices. After tabloid mainstay Scott Peterson was sent to San Quentin prison in March, the facility was inundated with calls and letters, many from female admirers seeking contact information for the man sent to death row for killing his wife and unborn child. "It was kind of a blitzkrieg, more than the operator could handle," says San Quentin spokesman Sgt. Eric Messick. The queries have slowed since then, Messick said, though Peterson gets a consistent amount of mail. Such an outpouring was a response to Peterson's macabre celebrity. During more than two years in the national spotlight, he attracted fans who thought him innocent, persecuted or at least handsome enough to root for. Messick said Peterson hasn't sent out visitor applications to anyone but his family and legal team so far. But if he someday courts a mate, he'd be following the example of Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez, John Wayne Gacy, Erik Menendez and other celebrity killers who wooed women from prison. "Two things make serial killers attractive to certain women. First, we as a society have made heroes out of monsters. We place their images on trading cards, T-shirts and the cover of celebrity magazines. We pay thousands for their artwork. We publish their poetry in magazines and books," said Jack Levin, director of the Brudnick Center on Violence at Northeastern University in Boston and co-author of the book "Extreme Killing: Understanding Serial and Mass Murder." "Second, the killers themselves are sociopaths. They know just what to say in order to make women believe they are innocent victims of injustice, using the same skills they employed to lure their victims and stay on the loose." But if such relationships are driven in part by celebrity, why would a Midwestern woman be drawn to Michael Ross, who isn't well known outside Connecticut? Powers did not respond to a request for comment for this story. But in a previous e-mail exchange with a Courant reporter, she described her motive, writing, "I try to see the good in all people, and try to see beyond the bad things they have done. Every single one of us deserves to be loved, regardless of what we have done in the past." "That's the language of denial," said Sheila Isenberg, author of "Women Who Love Men Who Kill." "She can't really accept the fact that she loves a guy that did such horrific things. She has to build up a scenario in her mind that minimizes his crimes and maximizes the other good things that she could find." For her 1992 book, Isenberg, a journalist, interviewed 30 women. She said all of them had physical, emotional or sexual abuse in their past. Most were involved with "garden variety killers," as opposed to notorious Charles Manson types. By their nature these relationships couldn't mature past the initial thrill of courtship, Isenberg concluded, but for the women she interviewed, the affairs satisfied their need for love and attention while putting them in control. "For many, this is a safe relationship. He's behind bars. He can't hurt me. But he has all the time in the world to write me these beautiful letters," said Isenberg, who's currently working on a sequel to her book. "Love Sick" will focus on the other side of such relationships, the murderers who charm from behind bars. But there are women who defy the image of the groupie obsessed with the ultimate bad boy. "Before this, I would have said anyone who did this was a fruit cake," says Karen Richey, referring to the decade-long relationship she's nurtured with Kenny Richey, a Scottish man sentenced to death in 1987. Since being convicted in Ohio of killing a 2-year-old in an act of arson, Kenny Richey has been supported by human-rights advocates (including the late Pope John Paul II) who say he is innocent. It was Karen's opposition to the death penalty and interest in the case of a fellow Scot that led to her initial contact. But as the letters and calls between them increased, something changed between them. "I guess like every other relationship, we clicked. ... There is no rhyme or reason to who we fall in love with," she wrote in an e-mail from Glasgow. "But still I thought it was insane." Thanks to a recent court ruling, Richey could soon be retried or set free. Karen looks forward to being united with her fiancée, whose last name she has already adopted. But would she be waiting for him if she had somehow become convinced he was guilty?
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Post by CCADP on May 15, 2005 0:01:11 GMT -5
I don't know. Many people have asked me that. I think it would have mattered had I found out anything that said he was guilty," she says. Maybe that's why it's so hard for her to fathom how Powers could build a romantic bond with Michael Ross.
"I can't understand any woman who would want to be involved with someone like that, especially because of what he's done to women," says Richey, adding that she wrote to Ross, accusing him of a selfish campaign that could open the door to other executions in Connecticut.
The Internet has been a great enabler for these uncommon couplings. Some pen-pal sites operate as de facto dating services, charging fees to deliver messages between prisoners and the people who respond to their personal ads. To some of the people affected by these prisoners' crimes, however, the opportunity for intimacy on any level for them seems repugnant, says James Papillo, Connecticut's victim advocate.
"It's the reaction that I hear often from survivors who get angry at the fact that prisoners, from their viewpoint, are living a much better life, though incarcerated, than they deserve. Something like having a girlfriend; it's bundled in with that," he says.
Playing matchmaker wasn't what Tracy Lamourie had in mind when she created the site for her Canadian Coalition Against the Death Penalty, yet it's played a part in a half-dozen engagements since it started in 1999. Lamourie and her partner set up pages for death-row prisoners who contact them seeking communication or assistance. Although the group champions those whose convictions appear unjust, it also supports pages for people like Michael Ross, whose writings and mailing address are posted there.
"We don't have any great love for people who do heinous crimes. We're just advocates," Lamourie says. "I'm like most people. I can't imagine how you'd be compelled to get [romantically] involved with a death-row prisoner. But these people are often friends to us, and most people wouldn't be able to make that leap either."
Many of the people who write to doomed convicts are from Europe, Lamourie says, where opposition to capital punishment is widespread. But that empathy sometimes evolves into a more personal connection.
"After the first initial letters, they're not writing about death row; they're writing about their histories and interests," Lamourie says. "I hear the same kind of rhetoric from people talking about relationships that start over the Internet."
Nicole Scott uses the same metaphor to describe how she fell in love with and eventually married Paul William Scott, sentenced to death for murder in Florida in 1979. At the urging of an activist friend, Nicole first wrote to him from Germany in 1999 after picking his name at random. After studying his case, she became convinced that it wasn't Scott who inflicted the killing blow to the murder victim. (His accomplice in the robbery-turned-deadly received a 45-year sentence.)
Scott says their bond deepened when she visited him for the first time in 2001. Then, on her second trip from Germany that year, he proposed. With a guard as a witness, they were married by the prison chaplain in the visiting area.
Nicole, 27 (about 20 years younger than her husband), emigrated to Gainesville in March to be closer to him. She acknowledges that she's put her life on hold for a man who - barring a judicial miracle - she will never share a bed with. But, like Karen Richey, Scott thinks her feelings are probably conditional on her husband's presumed innocence.
"I fell in love with the man, not the case," she says. However, "It makes a difference, the kind of crime he had. If he had been that cold-blooded killer, I think it would be different."
Instead, she spends her days consulting attorneys and human-rights groups, drawing attention to her husband's case as she works with an immigration lawyer to secure her permission to stay in a nation where nearly 1,000 people have been executed since the death penalty was reinstated in 1977.
"I love my man. He got punished for something that he's never done," she says. "I want to live a normal life with him, so I have to fight - not only for justice but for a life with him."
Contact John Jurgensen at jjurgensen@courant.com.
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