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Post by lostlove84 on Jul 4, 2005 18:22:57 GMT -5
HMMMMM I guess I have to thank OUR PARTISANS for OUR FREEDOM... before to thank USA....
I know what I mean, believe me....You Italians sure put up a big ol' fight back in WW2....just rolled on over and said "we surrender Mr. Hitler..." You guys are almost as bad as the french.... IT WAS MY ANSWER TO THIS KIND AND SWEET POST.... Garp wrote that we italians are as bad as french... and I have answered that I am arguing about your goverments... not about americans as amercian citizens... I have never said and thought anything bad about american ciiìtizens.... I understand that, but when you put our president and our laws down it does upset some of us. |
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:24:35 GMT -5
HMMMM no.... that is wrong... PARTISANS are a group, very big group of italian citizens, who made 2THE OTHER ARMY", hidden, not authorized by government, and who absolved the miost of north Itaky from Nazis before of american troups. We celebrate partisans day on april, 25th; it was our first clearance; americans made the official clearence, but partisasn did exist for ling time before....
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:25:11 GMT -5
long time* ... msitake...
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:25:59 GMT -5
if you feel offended if I don't like your president, it's your problem, I am not offending you... If you offend my presidnet I really don0t care.....
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:30:28 GMT -5
Partisans are Jews.... ahahah.. sorry but it makes me laugh a lot...
I am sure my granddad is REVOLVERING in his own tomb... oh ny god if he could hear this.....
LOL
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Post by garp on Jul 4, 2005 18:33:38 GMT -5
I don't really care if you like our president or not, your italian. It would be like me caring about who leads your "country", I don't care, I couldn't even name that person, but that is a reflection on how important Italy is to global events. What angers me is that you fail to see that we Americans, my granfather fought in WW2, pulled your butts out of the fryer. Wether you like our politics or laws, we still rescued your country after you gave up to Hitler. But that is like so many countries, when you have a disaster or get attacked plead to Americans for money and help but spit on us at any other time. Typical.
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:36:54 GMT -5
Again, HALF ITALY WAS FREE FROM NAZYS THANKS TO PARTISANS.
Go to study some history.
And I have already explained why I am interested in your politic, just becouse my country is supporting Bush and I don't agree.
Italy is involved in american politic, and as Tracy said.. human rights are universal and fight for human rights is universal.
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Post by lostlove84 on Jul 4, 2005 18:37:20 GMT -5
Partisans are Jews.... ahahah.. sorry but it makes me laugh a lot... I am sure my granddad is REVOLVERING in his own tomb... oh ny god if he could hear this..... LOL No need to be rud, I was only stating the info I found on this page. www.ushmm.org/outreach/jpart.htm |
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:46:18 GMT -5
well, it was just funny... I didn't mean to be rud...
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Post by sally104 on Jul 4, 2005 18:50:24 GMT -5
Yep, this is pretty much it woman. If you maliciously take someones life your deserve to die! I believe that this approach puts the responsibility back with the individual to be held responsible for their actions I would like to hear some new arguments about supporting death penalty; possibly those arguments should be something different from: Murderers only deserve to die Murderers only deserve to die Murderers only deserve to die Murderers only deserve to die This point is very clear. Anything else to say? |
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Post by garp on Jul 4, 2005 18:51:09 GMT -5
Why do you care? You apparently have no grasp on the opinions of Americans. The majority support executing murderers. I have no opinion on your country, what could I have one on? Pasta? Sauce? Italy has no effect on world events. I'm sure when you guys get invaded again we will save you, despite the fact that you people didn't appreciate the American lives that were lost defending your country. You make France sound good.
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miscmood
Doin' Time
If the world is night, shine my life like a light
Posts: 78
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Post by miscmood on Jul 4, 2005 18:55:26 GMT -5
There are a lot of good things about this country; the greatest being the ability to express one's point of view freely; to worship as we wish (or not worship at all), to move freely about and to have message boards such as this one to speak one's mind on various issues.
However, having said the above, I do many times feel embarrassed to admit I am a US citizen. It seems that my point of view belongs to the minority, judging by the results of the last two presidential elections. I live in Florida, which was, in 2000, a HUGE joke during the presidential election. I wondered if I was the only person who felt that the Bush family had perhaps a bit too much influence on how that election turned out. Okay, so I'm a Democrat, but even so, I wouldn't vote a straight ticket if I did not feel in my heart that those people were the very best candidates for the jobs they were running for. I have, in the past, voted for Republicans if I felt they had the right approach to the problems at hand. After the 2000 election, I questioned whether my vote ever really counted in the first place, no matter who I voted for. I thought it odd that GW won after a narrow win in the recount and that it was the State of Florida that it all seemed to hinge upon; a state with a Governor who just happened to be the brother of the man running for office, who just happened to be the son of the former President. I just had this feeling that Papa Bush told Jeb just how he was going to handle things in order to get GW in the White House. Going back even farther, I always felt that the terms President Reagan spent as President was a complete farce. He was a charismatic man; an excellent "front" man, while VP George could go ahead and run things. I always said that Papa Bush had more than two terms as President, if we count his years as VP under President Reagan. Just my personal opinion, mind you...
I have also been disheartened by the real lack of a hero in the Democratic Party. I mean, was Kerry really the ONLY and BEST person the party could cough up to run against Bush??? I voted for him only because he was the lesser of two evils, IMHO. Still, it didn't do any good. My voice was NOT heard, and who the hell cares???
I'll admit that before my son's arrest, I didn't pay an awful lot of attention to things like the DP or LWOP, or who was running for President, Governor, Senator... etc. But, I got to see first-hand how the politics game is played in this country. I got to see that money, greed, power, and ego, is what runs this "great" country. A country that was founded on Christian principles is now pondering whether we can say the word GOD in school, or in the Pledge, or whether it is appropriate to have a Nativity scene in front of a government building or not. Our currency states "In God We Trust" all over it.. Is that next to be removed?
Personally, I don't care if people practice a religion or not. I don't care if you are Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, or choose to believe in no supreme being at all. I care what makes sense to me, in the end, what makes my personal theology my own is not something I would "force" upon anyone else.
However, when it comes to what happened with my son, and others like him, I intend to somehow make my voice heard. I don't know how it will be accomplished, only that it MUST be accomplished, and in my lifetime, if possible. Since I've already lived longer than I have left, given the current life expectancy, I am running out of time with things moving so slowly. I have seen winds of change beginning to blow, but it is only just creeping along.
My son's trial was a joke. The State Attorney who personally prosecuted Josh stated in PUBLIC that at MOST, Josh should have been brought up on 2nd degree and in his opinion, it really ought to have been manslaughter, but that he could not take the political heat to do anything less than charge a 14-year-old boy with first-degree as an adult. He knew the right thing to do and didn't do it to save his own career, and hopefully, gain a federal judgeship out of it. Money, politics ego and greed. To hell with anything else. And this "great" state of Florida decided that the ONLY sentence for a JUVENILE sentenced as an adult is LWOP. An ADULT who pre-meditates murder gets a CHANCE at parole, but not kids! Let's just throw them away and forget about them is the attitude of many people here. What happens to their holier than thou attitude when heaven forbid, THEIR child becomes a statistic? Oh, but that's right; it never happens to ME. It's the OTHER family. Well, my family became the OTHER family and now I know FIRSTHAND what this government is like to deal with. On the DOC level, I was told that I was no longer a mother; that my son now belonged to the State of Florida. I was told my parental rights no longer existed; that my son was now just a number and I should "get over it" and move on with what was left of my life. Well, my son IS my life! And I am not going to give up on him. EVER.
It used to be we were Jonesing with cars, houses and jobs. Now we Jones with our children; see how many we can throw away as unredeemable. Let's solve the killing with more killing. Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. Right.
I suppose things could be worse. We could be living under laws like Saudi Arabia. I became involved with Human Rights Watch through my son's case and receive newsletters regularly about the horrendous things going on all over this world. Saudi Arabia, as recently as a couple of months ago, sentenced 31 men to prison terms ranging from six months to a year, and to 200 lashes each. Four men were sentenced to two years imprisonment and 2,000 lashes. At the time of the writing of the bulletin, Human Rights was trying to get the Saudi government to at least adminster the lashings at different intervals, since it was unlikely the four men would survive their punishment if carried out all at once. Seventy others, initially released without sentencing, were summoned back and sentenced to a year in prison, after being arrested at a PRIVATE party. These guys did not kill or harm a soul They just didn't figure that what they did at a PRIVATE party was the government's business! Reading further in the bulletin, these people could have been sentenced to death! I personally know a man who was head of security for a Saudi prince for two years. The pay was phenomenal, which was why he accepted the position. However, he found it impossible to live with the "laws" in that country. Two friends of his, British citizens, who worked with him at the palace, were due to return to the UK and decided to have a little private party to celebrate. Since alcohol is prohibited, they made their own. Somehow, they were found out, and their house was raided. They were dragged into the street and each given 100 lashes and then were thrown into prison to serve a term not less than one year. For drinking alcohol at a private party! My friend was told what happened and tried to see them, but was initially denied permission. Eventually, about a week afterward, he was able to at least get medical help to these guys. So, I guess I can figure that if there is some light in the shade in the US government and how it operates, at least things like that don't happen here. Or maybe they do... Indeed, I have heard horror stories about prison from my son, and from others.
Two parents I know through FLIP (Families with Loved-ones In Prison) have a son in prison with LWOP. He was sent out to the panhandle, which means it is a six-hour drive each way for his parents to visit him. They made the drive out there only to be turned away at the visiting park; told they could not see their son because he'd been savagely beaten by other inmates and was in a local hospital. They would not tell these poor people where their son was, so they began the arduous process of trying to find him by driving to each hospital they could locate. When they eventually did find him, they were not permitted to see him and were turned away. Since it was a weekend, finding someone in a position to help them was extremely difficult. Where is the humanity in situations such as this?
Okay, so this is getting really long and I need to just stop right here, although I could go on. A revamp of the judicial system is called for. Legislation must be changed and the most difficult part about it is that it comes down to the voters. I just find it so frustrating to be apparently in the minority. Does that mean the majority of the people who vote in this country are so easily led astray? As Free Rob says, are we sheep just being shuffled along in the path of least resistance? Or are we FREE to use our minds and our hearts to stand up for what is right and humane? I freely admit that I am a Christian, and base my decisions on matters on what Christ would do and try to do as he would have me do. I fully believe Christ would not support the DP or LWOP for children, and it is up to me to do the right thing.
If change begins with me, then here I am. Shine my life like a light, and let like-minded people stand with me and be seen and our voices heard!
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Post by antideathpen67 on Jul 4, 2005 19:06:34 GMT -5
HMMMM no.... that is wrong... PARTISANS are a group, very big group of italian citizens, who made 2THE OTHER ARMY", hidden, not authorized by government, and who absolved the miost of north Itaky from Nazis before of american troups. We celebrate partisans day on april, 25th; it was our first clearance; americans made the official clearence, but partisasn did exist for ling time before.... I looked it up at wikipedia.org, this is what the word partisan is used for, so not just italian freedom fighters were partisans, it can be used for any such force  A member of a lightly-equipped irregular military force formed to oppose control of an area by a foreign power or by an army of occupation. In this context the term often refers to the field element of resistance movements that opposed Nazi domination in several countries during World War II. For information on any particular such movement, see the list of links in resistance movement. Someone with a personal or professional commitment to one particular party, faction, cause, or person; observers may describe such partisans as "being partisan", and their outlook as "partisan views". This usage tends to express a degree of disapproval, with a hint that the degree of partisanship or devotion seems excessive. |
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 19:08:24 GMT -5
Well... i was talking about Italy.... of course I was referring to italian partisans...
and I didn't need to look for it on the net... most of my family was partisan.
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Post by antideathpen67 on Jul 4, 2005 19:13:45 GMT -5
Well... i was talking about Italy.... of course I was referring to italian partisans... and I didn't need to look for it on the net... most of my family was partisan. did no try to offend you... just looked it up in general, what wiki would say about it exactly... |
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