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Post by CCADP on Jul 4, 2005 15:55:43 GMT -5
Just like my previous post re apartheid says....
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Post by lostlove84 on Jul 4, 2005 15:56:19 GMT -5
It would be easier if you read my previous postings in this thread. I was specifically pointing out that Europeans didn't have any business claiming the "moral high-ground" - based on history - , (please re-read), and that the only thing we could do was to communicate.That's what I'm doing. I'm sorry if that offends you, but if you don't like to read what I post, you don't need to read it. In the many cases "internal problems" occur in other countries outside the US, the US is the quickest ones to critize and even get directly involved. So I guess you'll have 2 choices: 1) Stop reading 2) Accept the fact that the US of A isn't heaven on earth and try to improve matters. Turid First off the post I made to you was about revenge. And I never said that the US has heaven on earth. Only that we have our own laws to deal with our own crimes. I did not want to bring any of the wars in to this because I knew it was going to be a hot issue. I have not put your countries dowm so stop doing it to mine so you dont like our laws thats your right but we made them our laws because its what we wanted, we dont have to ask you what laws we can and can not have. We have NEVER made anyones laws for them. We have helped them to make there own choice without having a mean person force there views on them. We could just keep Iraq and all its riches for our self, but no we dont or the gas in the US would not be as high a price as it is right now.
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Post by lostlove84 on Jul 4, 2005 16:00:05 GMT -5
What do you mean? All I want to do is to talk and debate. That is what this board is for. What exactly do you mean with "but that is not what you do and you know it"? Did I break a law or something? For speaking my mind? Turid The use of the word you is not ment as one person in my posts. I would use your name out right if I was posting to one person. And what I ment is that you dont try to just talk about the DP you try to MAKE us change our laws by trying to get involved in our issues, and by telling us things like we have to do this and we have to do that and calling us names and the like. Now do you understand?
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Post by tulla63 on Jul 4, 2005 17:05:45 GMT -5
You posted many responses and I missed one while answering the others. If you don't think the death penalty is about revenge, then what is it about? One of your questions were if I would think it better if the family that lost a love one was to carry out the punishment themselves, I really don't even know where to begin: The death penalty is soceity's revenge. Can we agree that far? However, it's not that simple either. It's about politics and lots of other things that's simply too much to discuss in a forum like this. That is no secret. Also, since your democracy is the supposedly the best there is, how come you don't realize that a democracy isn't supposed to be a majority dictatorship. In a democracy, the individual also have certain rights of it's own. The most basic individual right an individual has in a modern democracy, is the right to life. Your own authorities co-signed the Universial Declaration of Human Rights. Why? Because these rights would be meant for anyone but the US citizens? I mean: Are you part of the world community or what? Article 3 says specifically: Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person..(The US doesn't care about that one obviously....) Article 5: No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.These are UNIVERSIAL RIGHTS. Rights we all have regardless of where we were born. You've been discussing the matter "cruel, inhuman or / and degrading treatment and punishment for years and end, but you must realize that fewer and fewer agree with the US in the insane claim that the death penalty isn't cruel, degrading and torturous only because you seem to think the last few seconds of a man or woman's life may not be physically painful. How can it not be torturous to stay on death row for 20 years waiting for death? Please explain how you can defend this internationally, as long as your own authorities cries up about it anytime they feel some other nation isn't sticking to the Universial Declaration of Human Rights? We're many observing what is going on, and I have to tell you - whether you get offended or not - that it is sickening to watch Bush on TV talking warmly about democracy and human rights when we know how little he expects from his own. Do you REALLY think this is a strange reaction on the European's part? I don't. OK - then I guess I just got that impression from what you wrote. Personally, I don't have a problem with that at all as long as you use the Universial Declaration of Human Righs as a model. When you do, I'll shut up. Actually, I believe you made it an issue yourself by suggesting that foreigners were interferring with you. So you asked for it. It is a fact that the US is interferring with everyone's business all the time. Once you get critized, you're getting all bent out of shape. If you have a problem with my country, let me know. I'll answer the best I can, and I sure don't take criticizm of my own country personally. Of course you're entitled to your own laws. Still: If you want to avoid critizm, stick to the human rights - at least! I don't really know about that..... I hope I misunderstood. Are you saying you were free to keep Iraq and all its riches for yourself, but you just "didn't want to"?? You see: We were told it had something to do with "liberation"!! Not that many really believed in that, of course!! Turid
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 17:29:52 GMT -5
On this level, I'm getting involved. You say don't talk about the War etc, but concentrate on YOUR Country etc. Did Iraq ASK for YOUR saddo President to invade THEIR country? (Georgy baby looks more and more like an idiot from his campaigning video's... he's seems clueless! - how the hell did he ever get into power? oppps... sorry.... $$$) I don't know about anyone else, but here in the UK, the US President is regarded as a complete joke. Yes, even the media here. People look at him and LAUGH. No-one takes ANYTHING he says seriously. Why? Because he's evidently STUPID, and has Daddy's oil money to further his career. Back to topic, I think Shawnie, in all respect to you, that the US Government have an agenda. They'll never tell you or I. However they are politically correct. They choose to reach to those most likely to vote for them. Here in Europe we are like viewers looking into a goldfish bowl. You guys can't see our perspective, you are IN the bowl. From our point of view, your laws, together with your village idiot President, stink. Sorry to be honest, but that's how many, like me, feel in Europe. Best Miles And you can bit me.....sorry tracy and cookie...yes that is an emotional response. I dont care what any of you think of Bush, he is not you president he is ours and I guess enough people liked what he was doing because he got put in office again so...... Go ahead and delete this post thats cool. But remember you would not have your freedom if it was not for the US. I am sorry but I am very interested in what your dear BUSH decide to do, since he goes all aournd the world to say that WE HAVE to learn from him and to look for support... I am very interested in your politic, since you have the power, and since my governement and my country has begone to follow your EXAMPLE. I am a part of that Italy that doens't want to deal with american politic and HERE i fight against it. I am fighting in my country, against YOUR government, becouse Italy doesn't want to be involeved in your dirty wars, weapons and revenge affairs. My government is into this; I am against it; the same that most of the HALF Italy. I have to look at what is happening in your country, becouse Georgy want us to be his DOGS.... thanks God you didn't convince us for death penalty becouse we are part of a big democracy; but who knnows..... YOU have the power...
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 17:34:14 GMT -5
And what i have posted is not MY opinion, what I DO THINK; it is a declaration fromn european union to USA... a bit difference... it's not me, la, telling you what to do..... LOL
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Post by lostlove84 on Jul 4, 2005 17:44:06 GMT -5
What I ment with the Iraq statment is when ever we try to help a country it is said that we are butting in, well we have control of that country at this time and we are trying to help them rebuild there goverment and protect them as they do it, but we could have just kept it an taken there oil for our self but we did not do that, NO we are trying to help them reach what they want for them self. Just as we helped Europe to be where they are today. Or would you rather still be under someone like Hitler? Its funny how people put us down and call us names but when the get in to trouble who is the first person they run to for help? ? The US!!!! All I ask was why you felt it was your right to tell us how to set our laws. If you fallow UNIVERSIAL RIGHTS to the letter, then there would be no punishment for any crime. It does not talk in there about a country not setting and fallowing there own laws, and it also does not state in there that a crime can not be punishable by death.
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 17:52:58 GMT -5
[/quote] But remember you would not have your freedom if it was not for the US.[/q HMMMMM I guess I have to thank OUR PARTISANS for OUR FREEDOM... before to thank USA.... I know what I mean, believe me....
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 17:54:46 GMT -5
What I ment with the Iraq statment is when ever we try to help a country it is said that we are butting in, well we have control of that country at this time and we are trying to help them rebuild there goverment and protect them as they do it, but we could have just kept it an taken there oil for our self but we did not do that, NO we are trying to help them reach what they want for them self. Just as we helped Europe to be where they are today. Or would you rather still be under someone like Hitler? Its funny how people put us down and call us names but when the get in to trouble who is the first person they run to for help? ? The US!!!! All I ask was why you felt it was your right to tell us how to set our laws. If you fallow UNIVERSIAL RIGHTS to the letter, then there would be no punishment for any crime. It does not talk in there about a country not setting and fallowing there own laws, and it also does not state in there that a crime can not be punishable by death. I am not talking about IRAQ in this moment; you told us that we shouldn't care about you and your president; I am telling you that as italian citizen I have many reasons to care about american politic and laws.
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Post by garp on Jul 4, 2005 18:02:39 GMT -5
HMMMMM I guess I have to thank OUR PARTISANS for OUR FREEDOM... before to thank USA.... I know what I mean, believe me....
You Italians sure put up a big ol' fight back in WW2....just rolled on over and said "we surrender Mr. Hitler..." You guys are almost as bad as the french....
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:04:32 GMT -5
Do you know who a partisan is?
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:06:44 GMT -5
And I have never offended you as an american, I am arguing against your government... it is a bit different.... You guys are almost bas as.... hey... BREATH AND RELAX!
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Post by lostlove84 on Jul 4, 2005 18:15:47 GMT -5
And I have never offended you as an american, I am arguing against your government... it is a bit different.... You guys are almost bas as.... hey... BREATH AND RELAX! We are what? Sorry I dont understand what you mean.
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Post by ela on Jul 4, 2005 18:18:43 GMT -5
HMMMMM I guess I have to thank OUR PARTISANS for OUR FREEDOM... before to thank USA.... I know what I mean, believe me....You Italians sure put up a big ol' fight back in WW2....just rolled on over and said "we surrender Mr. Hitler..." You guys are almost as bad as the french.... IT WAS MY ANSWER TO THIS KIND AND SWEET POST.... Garp wrote that we italians are as bad as french... and I have answered that I am arguing about your goverments... not about americans as amercian citizens... I have never said and thought anything bad about american ciiìtizens....
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Post by lostlove84 on Jul 4, 2005 18:19:20 GMT -5
Do you know who a partisan is? And yes I know what a partisan is. "Some Jews who managed to escape from ghettos and camps formed their own fighting units" There is more info but that the gist of it.
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