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Post by andie on Apr 19, 2008 11:50:38 GMT -5
Actually, the problem with innocent people in the prison system is they do not show remorse which is obvious cause they didn't kill anyone thus they do not admitt or accept guilt thus having a harder time making parole then someone who is actually guilty. Again this is a major flaw in the system. So whereas a guilty murder can go out and possibly kill again, as shown with the cases posted the innocent person is stuck in prison. Anna, you never did answer my question. Is risking and innocent person being executed worth having the death penalty when murderers could be locked up for the rest of their lives? Just because those "ex-dr" inmates murdered again doesn't mean the death penalty is appropriate. Apparently they shouldn't have been let out. Kinda proves that there are flaws in the justice system, don't you think? If they let guilty people off death row out of prison just to murder again, don't you think they keep innocent people in prison and on death row just to be executed?
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Post by andie on Apr 19, 2008 12:09:53 GMT -5
Ok, posting of names or cases are used as evidence to strengthen a point or to counter a point made which is also part of a good debate. Second, on the note of the dp and lwop...is it not true that no matter what sentence a person get's or what they are convicted of prisoners tend to carry shanks or weapons on them..again whether it be to purposley cause harm or for self defence that murder or attempted murder is still going on within the system? Meaning that regardless of the dp or lwop, prisoners who are not even sentenced to death are still dieing, and that correctional officers are being put at risk to for just doing there jobs. My point, if someone really wants to kill someone in the prison system or in society they will, and if the criminal justice system can successfully without bias or error (even though I know it happens but hypothetically speaking) can make sure that the person being executed did in fact murder someone, then they in turn took that risk of recieving a sentence of death...and if a prisoner decideds to kill someone then they are also taking that risk of being executed and obviously unable to be rehabilitated. If they let guilty people off death row out of prison just to murder again, don't you think they keep innocent people in prison and on death row just to be executed? You are asking for logical thinking here. I have determined that Pros do not think logically at all. And it seems as though they are not able to debate very well either. All this posting of names is getting very old very quickly. And........Who is Doc and why does he not come here and post for himself? Is he just to busy trying to get people murdered to take the time to post?
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Post by andie on Apr 19, 2008 12:17:14 GMT -5
Natural Theorist perspective....to bad not everyone is religious, so they do not fear the final judgement day. In what instance is life ever completely fair? When you live and exist in a society that has defined very clearly what is right and wrong it benefits us all to try and live and let live. If you kill another you may find the system you live in has very sharp teeth. Best to live and let live I say. If you become your own God and decide to take a life you may come up against a larger God that will seek revenge on you for the life you took. We live in a (group think) world, if you commit an (individualized) crime you will most likely be lost in the numbers. Dont kill others, don't allow yourself to be killed by the system you live in.
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Post by andie on Apr 19, 2008 12:24:38 GMT -5
Just a thought, maybe society should focus more on preventing murder, so there will be no dr inmates. But then again each person is in a different situation and so on and so forth and that crime becomes them. But at least dr inmates still have people to fight for their lives such as this website...it's a shame that no one could fight for the life of the victim..... I understand CCADP is a anti-capitalpunishment group and not a legal assistance group (ie whose core mission is to deal with those who claim they are wrongfully convicted) I don't necessarily agree with Anna's comments, I think that the reason why you do not talk about is that the core focus of this group is to focus on DR inmates Oh, no! That's one thing you are mistaken about. We deal with all DR inmates. No DR inmate should be executed. We post things from those who do not claim wrongful convictions. We write those who do not claim wrongful convictions. We fight to save ALL their lives. Cyclone, if a DR inmate is fighting for their life and to have their conviction changed to Life or LWOP, it would not be very smart for us to say right here that we believe they are guilty or they confided in us that they are guilty. We don't publicize everything we do for all inmates. We fight for the lives of ALL DR inmates. hugggz, Suzanne
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Post by pumpkinpie on Apr 19, 2008 22:31:49 GMT -5
But at least dr inmates still have people to fight for their lives such as this website...it's a shame that no one could fight for the life of the victim..... [/quote] It sounds like your talking about self defense or defending another from harm/danger. I'm all for that and would do it in a heart beat! If I had to kill to protect a person from getting murdered right then and there on the spot, I'd do it if I could. That's far different than executing after the time for self defense or to defend another has passed. Just like we can't defend the already executed inmate.
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Post by happyhaddock on Apr 21, 2008 15:29:17 GMT -5
Just a thought, maybe society should focus more on preventing murder, so there will be no dr inmates. But then again each person is in a different situation and so on and so forth and that crime becomes them. But at least dr inmates still have people to fight for their lives such as this website...it's a shame that no one could fight for the life of the victim..... We do exactly that. First, by trying to ensure that only the guilty are convicted we work to prevent the guilty being free to do more harm. Second, by working against the DP we are working to free up $ millions to be used to investigate crimes, some of which are long gone cold. Third, by holding the police and prosecutors to a higher standard, we again are working to ensure that society is protected from the actually dangerous by competent investigation, not damaged by tunnel-vision and rush-to-judgment police and prosecutors.
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Post by andie on Apr 22, 2008 10:44:00 GMT -5
You said keeping them in prison to prevent more harm, yet there is still harm going on in prison from other inmates hence shanks and attempted murder and sometimes even murder happening to prisoners and correctional officers. And i highly doubt that tunnel vision and or rush to judgement will ever be changed. If it wasn't being changed in the past, then there will be a few who will not change it in the future....again another flaw of the system. Just a thought, maybe society should focus more on preventing murder, so there will be no dr inmates. But then again each person is in a different situation and so on and so forth and that crime becomes them. But at least dr inmates still have people to fight for their lives such as this website...it's a shame that no one could fight for the life of the victim..... We do exactly that. First, by trying to ensure that only the guilty are convicted we work to prevent the guilty being free to do more harm. Second, by working against the DP we are working to free up $ millions to be used to investigate crimes, some of which are long gone cold. Third, by holding the police and prosecutors to a higher standard, we again are working to ensure that society is protected from the actually dangerous by competent investigation, not damaged by tunnel-vision and rush-to-judgment police and prosecutors.
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Post by happyhaddock on Apr 22, 2008 12:18:12 GMT -5
You said keeping them in prison to prevent more harm, yet there is still harm going on in prison from other inmates hence shanks and attempted murder and sometimes even murder happening to prisoners and correctional officers. And i highly doubt that tunnel vision and or rush to judgement will ever be changed. If it wasn't being changed in the past, then there will be a few who will not change it in the future....again another flaw of the system. If the system is flawed - fix it. One of the great problems of the US system is that it has moved many people from insane asylums to prisons. This is hardly helping anyone.
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Post by realist on Jun 7, 2008 12:15:58 GMT -5
Who did Eddie Slovik kill? Who did the Rosenbergs kill? I can understand that what Julius & Ethel did, might seem to be "heroic" to you, but as has been noted, These traitors might have put more American's lives in danger, than any other traitors in history. Julius Rosenberg (May 12, 1918 – June 19, 1953) and Ethel Greenglass Rosenberg (September 28, 1915 – June 19, 1953) were American citizens who received international attention when they were executed having been found guilty of conspiracy to commit espionage in relation to passing information on the American atomic bomb to the Soviet Union. As for Slovik, read a little history sdl. There are very few countries, if ANY who did not execute slakers and traitors during war time. The practice was RAMPANT during the civil war. Personally, I would not have executed him. Cowardace is repugnant, but not deserving of the death penalty.
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Post by happyhaddock on Jun 7, 2008 12:33:07 GMT -5
Who did Eddie Slovik kill? Who did the Rosenbergs kill? I can understand that what Julius & Ethel did, might seem to be "heroic" to you, but as has been noted, These traitors might have put more American's lives in danger, than any other traitors in history. Julius Rosenberg (May 12, 1918 – June 19, 1953) and Ethel Greenglass Rosenberg (September 28, 1915 – June 19, 1953) were American citizens who received international attention when they were executed having been found guilty of conspiracy to commit espionage in relation to passing information on the American atomic bomb to the Soviet Union. As for Slovik, read a little history sdl. There are very few countries, if ANY who did not execute slakers and traitors during war time. The practice was RAMPANT during the civil war. Personally, I would not have executed him. Cowardace is repugnant, but not deserving of the death penalty. The Rosenbergs were minor players. Klaus Fuchs was the major source of information to Stalin. What can we say about the FBI, who allowed the loss first, of the Norden bombsight to Germany, and second, loss of the atomic secrets to Russia? One important part of former President Harry S Truman's legacy was his crusade against war profiteering. As a U.S. senator in 1941, Truman drove thousands of miles around the country going from one defense plant to another documenting waste and fraud. He then headed the Senate Special Committee to Investigate the National Defense Program -- the Truman committee, for short. The process saved American taxpayers $15 billion (in 1940s dollars). And by uncovering faulty military equipment, he prevented the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of U.S. soldiers. That committee, under G W Bush, has made no investigations into Iraq war profiteering. So we shoot a couple of the lowest ranked soldiers while the real crooks and traitors allow many serviceperson's deaths for extra profit. Seems fair?
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