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Post by Maggie on Nov 13, 2005 7:28:05 GMT -5
I'm curious as to what others think Schwarzenegger will do in the case of Stanley Williams.
I think clemency will be granted because I honestly can't see how any decent human being, even a politician, could turn this down. If there was ever a case with a strong argument for clemency it has to be this one. Even people who are pro-DP can't deny that Williams is of more value alive than dead.....
Thoughts anyone?
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Post by gaylordfarquahar on Nov 13, 2005 9:52:45 GMT -5
"I'm curious as to what others think Schwarzenegger will do in the case of Stanley Williams.
I think clemency will be granted because I honestly can't see how any decent human being, even a politician, could turn this down. If there was ever a case with a strong argument for clemency it has to be this one. Even people who are pro-DP can't deny that Williams is of more value alive than dead.."
I think you're dreaming. I don't see a chance that Schwarzenegger will extend clemency.
As to Williams being of more use alive than dead, I'm not so sure. To say that is to minimize the crimes that sent him to death row.
Many will say that his work against gangs is salutary, and it is. However, if that fact is weighed in the balance for clemency, one must also consider how many youths followed his example and entered vicious street gangs because of him, and subsequently were killed.
It would be reasonable to consider that hundreds, if not thousands, of youths died young because of his example.
Does the fact that he has to be on good behavior now (he's on death row) and is desperately working to save his own skin by renouncing the deaths he may have caused by his actions counterbalance his crimes?
Not much chance of that.
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Post by Maggie on Nov 13, 2005 10:28:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the response.....
What do you think about this:
The California governor, barnstorming on Election Day, had no comment.
"There are not as many rules for clemency as for other things, so we really have no way of knowing" when Schwarzenegger will respond, said Andrea Asaro, the lawyer who handled Williams' appeal.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that rejected his appeal in 2004 took the unusual step of suggesting that his "good works and accomplishments since incarceration may make him a worthy candidate for the exercise of gubernatorial discretion."
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Post by gaylordfarquahar on Nov 13, 2005 11:07:24 GMT -5
"The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that rejected his appeal in 2004 took the unusual step of suggesting that his "good works and accomplishments since incarceration may make him a worthy candidate for the exercise of gubernatorial discretion."
Interesting, but the 9th Circuit has the highest rate of being overturned at the U.S. Supreme Court of any district court. It has approached 90% in some terms.
You may remember their plethora of stays in the Robert Alton Harris case, when finally, after Harris had been seated and removed from the gas chamber twice, the SCOTUS told the Ninth Circuit they would not entertain any more stays.
Tookie's going down.
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Post by Maggie on Nov 13, 2005 11:35:55 GMT -5
My point is they are taking some of the pressure off of Arnold... imo... by suggesting that Stanley is a candidate for clemency..... in other words giving their approval-- at least that is how I read it.
Well so far you and I are the only ones who voted.
Can I ask a question? Do you WANT Stanley Williams to be executed?
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Post by laurauk on Nov 13, 2005 11:41:56 GMT -5
i voted too and think he should not be executed thanks laura
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Post by gaylordfarquahar on Nov 13, 2005 11:44:16 GMT -5
"My point is they are taking some of the pressure off of Arnold... imo... by suggesting that Stanley is a candidate for clemency..... in other words giving their approval-- at least that is how I read it."
If you're addressing the political question, I don't think it matters to Ahnuld. He's a Republican and in enough trouble with his base all ready after taking a serious ass-whipping last Tuesday at the polls. Granting clemency to Tookie is not going to help matters.
" Can I ask a question? Do you WANT Stanley Williams to be executed?"
Not particularly, but I'm like that with most executions. Tookie's a vicious thug who has brilliantly rehabilitated himself in the eyes of the public. I'm fairly confident the vicious thug still lies behind the mask of victimhood he now wears.
He's run out his string. If he goes, I won't object.
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Post by moghirl on Nov 13, 2005 11:49:32 GMT -5
i voted too and think he should not be executed thanks laura Hi Laura, you know I don't think anyone should be executed either. The question here is, will Govnr. Arnold grant Tookie clemency I'd like to see it but doubt it'll happen.....so I had to vote no.
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Post by laurauk on Nov 13, 2005 11:58:19 GMT -5
you are right mo he probably wont budge at all,love laura xx
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Post by Maggie on Nov 13, 2005 13:40:32 GMT -5
Gaylordwhatever, Tookie has been nominated for the Nobel Peace prize FIVE times... what does that mean to you? Also- he got that letter from Bush (granted Bush didn't know who he was)... but still... how can you deny what he has done? His "Peace Pacts" have ended rival gang wars in many states. If you could give clemency to this man, would you?
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Post by Maggie on Nov 13, 2005 13:42:02 GMT -5
This is a serious discussion but I have to throw in Bush not knowing about that letter is just too priceless ;D ;D ;D
LMAO!
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sdl
New Arrival
Posts: 0
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Post by sdl on Nov 13, 2005 21:18:21 GMT -5
Like I said in a earlier thread, if Ahh-nuld executes Tookie, he's literally put a target on his back from gangs nationwide. Avenging Tookie will be seen as a "honor killing" from the gangs.
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Post by attitude on Nov 14, 2005 0:43:16 GMT -5
It means nothing since Yasser Arafat won the Nobel Peace prize.... Gaylordwhatever, Tookie has been nominated for the Nobel Peace prize FIVE times... what does that mean to you? Also- he got that letter from Bush (granted Bush didn't know who he was)... but still... how can you deny what he has done? His "Peace Pacts" have ended rival gang wars in many states. If you could give clemency to this man, would you?
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Post by hazel on Nov 14, 2005 10:20:40 GMT -5
I voted no. Id dont think there is any chance that Tookie Williams will be granted clemency. No matter if he was nominated for a nobel prize he still took lives and ended up on death row for it. I dont think no one is gonna be giving him a second chance.
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Post by Maggie on Nov 16, 2005 8:01:17 GMT -5
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