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Post by guest4life on Feb 22, 2007 14:20:15 GMT -5
The smart thing would have been for Scott to stop talking to Amber, but to give her name to LE immediately (so that they could investigate her before she got a chance to destroy evidence or get her friends to make up cover stories for her).
Instead, he didn't tell LE about her, kept talking to her himself, and let Amber be the one to contact LE.
That wasn't very smart.
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Post by happyhaddock on Feb 22, 2007 16:32:31 GMT -5
The smart thing would have been for Scott to stop talking to Amber, but to give her name to LE immediately (so that they could investigate her before she got a chance to destroy evidence or get her friends to make up cover stories for her). Instead, he didn't tell LE about her, kept talking to her himself, and let Amber be the one to contact LE. That wasn't very smart. Which once again goes to innocence!
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Post by guest4life on Feb 22, 2007 19:39:19 GMT -5
That's what I'm talking about. Why talk to Amber about it at all, or make arrangements with Amber? That whole debacle with the private LD test wasn't til about a month after Laci went missing.
It was all about Laci, Conner, and Scott. What Amber thought or did or said about it shouldn't have played any part in his decisions. Why listen to Amber about a private polygraph, instead of listening to your attorney? If you're going to take a private one, do it with your attorney and someone he picked - not with some girl you were dating. She'd already taken hers through LE, and passed it. He should have just dumped Amber.
Why not just tell LE about Amber, take a private LD test, stop courting Amber, etc.
He didn't do the things that innocent people usually do, so he set up the perception of something not being right.
He had to know that LE would eventually find out about Amber, so it would have been better if he'd just come clean about her himself - and then dumped her.
I've wondered at times if he was in the middle of a nervous breakdown. He listened to his attorney on some things, but ignored his advice on other things.
The things he did should be a lesson in what NOT to do if you're ever in the position he was in.
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Post by guest4life on Feb 22, 2007 19:42:31 GMT -5
The smart thing would have been for Scott to stop talking to Amber, but to give her name to LE immediately (so that they could investigate her before she got a chance to destroy evidence or get her friends to make up cover stories for her). Instead, he didn't tell LE about her, kept talking to her himself, and let Amber be the one to contact LE. That wasn't very smart. Which once again goes to innocence! I don't see where it goes to innocence to not tell LE about someone you have suspicions of. Telling them would give them a chance to investigate the person before they knew they were under suspicion. Scott never said that he was suspicious of Amber and that this is why he was talking to her. Did Scott tell you that privately? Do you ever get to talk to him? Because as far as I knew, the idea that he was talking to Amber to get info out of her is something that someone on one of the discussion boards came up with as a theory on why he was talking to Amber.
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Post by happyhaddock on Feb 22, 2007 20:56:05 GMT -5
... Scott never said that he was suspicious of Amber and that this is why he was talking to her. ... He never testified. Brocchini thought that Frey might have been involved although he gave up on that idea. Frey has no alibi, she has behaved very oddly in the past and she has a hell of a motive. She's low on my list but never has been off it.
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Post by happyhaddock on Feb 22, 2007 21:50:12 GMT -5
... We often hear of people having an "inconclusive" result, who are later cleared, but I've never heard of someone who flat-out failed a polygraph who was later found to be completely innocent. Not saying this never happened - I've just never heard of it. I've never heard of anyone being able to put 153 lb body (let alone an additional 200 lb of weights) over the side of a 14 foot aluminum boat safely - or trying to. I've also never heard of anyone making weights ahead of time to sink a body. And I've lived a long time on earth.
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Post by guest4life on Feb 23, 2007 1:03:39 GMT -5
happy, I was just talking about the subject here - which is Scott demeanor and the interview.
He said he'd taken a LD test, but then talked to an attorney and changed his mind. Yet, he was willing to take one for Amber.
It just would have looked better for Scott if he'd told LE about Amber instead of letting her come to them, and had asked them to give her a LD test (since he didn't know that she'd already taken and passed one).
All I'm saying is that when something that huge happens to your family, you don't worry about what your girlfriend-on-the-side says or does. You do the things that are best for YOU, and that would involve cooperating with LE and cooperating with your attorney.
Some people believe that Laci was held for a while before she was murdered. What if she'd been being held by someone connected to Amber, and meanwhile Scott didn't tell LE about her in time to maybe save her.
That's all I'm saying.
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Post by lsmith510 on Feb 23, 2007 12:49:06 GMT -5
happy, I was just talking about the subject here - which is Scott demeanor and the interview. He said he'd taken a LD test, but then talked to an attorney and changed his mind. Yet, he was willing to take one for Amber. It just would have looked better for Scott if he'd told LE about Amber instead of letting her come to them, and had asked them to give her a LD test (since he didn't know that she'd already taken and passed one). All I'm saying is that when something that huge happens to your family, you don't worry about what your girlfriend-on-the-side says or does. You do the things that are best for YOU, and that would involve cooperating with LE and cooperating with your attorney. Some people believe that Laci was held for a while before she was murdered. What if she'd been being held by someone connected to Amber, and meanwhile Scott didn't tell LE about her in time to maybe save her. That's all I'm saying. I hope you don't mind if I jump in here. I believe that Scott did not tell the police about Amber because at that point he still had hope that Laci would be found alive and come home. I don't see anything peculiar about a man still full of hope 3 weeks after his wife disappears. I think he thought, at that point, that it was possible for Laci to come home and no need to tell LE (and her family) about his (obviously embarrassing) affair. However 5 weeks into this thing, when he agreed to take a private poly for Amber, I think he was in a completely different frame of mind. I think this was the point that his strength and optimism began to fade. The whole world thought he was guilty (including his in-laws), his wife was probably dead and if taking a private poly at that point could prove his innocence to one of the few people who were still speaking to him (Amber) then he was willing to do it. If Laci had been found murdered on December 24th - Scott may have done a lot of things differently. But I think it was his hope that Laci was still alive, that caused him to do things many people could not understand. I personally don't think he ever suspected Amber....I just think he was smart enough to know that if LE found out about his affair, they would focus on him, which would send the investigation in the wrong direction. And I don't think if Scott had told LE himself about the affair, that it would have changed anything in the eyes of the MPD. I think Brocchini decided immediately that he was guilty - and Scott telling him about Amber would have only intensified that feeling.
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Post by happyhaddock on Feb 23, 2007 13:42:49 GMT -5
... I think Brocchini decided immediately that he was guilty - and Scott telling him about Amber would have only intensified that feeling. Yes. Brocchini admitted that he had known about Frey all along - before he ever went to Scott's home - and it's clear he never changed his opinion about Scott's guilt no matter what the evidence showed and his opinion colored the whole 'investigation'. Look at what the MPD did: - First they tried desperately to prove he wasn't at the bay. They failed.
- Then they tried to find traces of homicide in the house. They failed.
- Then they tried to find traces of homicide in the truck. They failed.
- Then they tried to find traces of homicide in the boat. They failed.
- Then they tried to find traces of homicide in the warehouse. They failed.
- Then they tried to find evidence at the bay. They failed.
- By then they were so desperate that they listened in to his phone calls to his attorneys. They learned nothing.
They simply ignored the evidence and clutched for any scrap that could be turned in any way to suit their preconceived notions. Competent investigators would have always re-evaluated their theory according to the facts. This bunch never did that once.
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Post by guest4life on Feb 23, 2007 16:29:33 GMT -5
(Hope it's okay if I address two different posters in this one post).
Happy, I'm not really talking about evidence or lack thereof here. I was trying to talk about the issues brought up by the interview, which includes the LD test, and Scott's behavior.
lsmith - I'm a female, so I can't say what I would feel if my "wife" disappeared. I am the mother of a daughter close to Laci's age, though.
If she just disappeared off the street, while pregnant, leaving her leashed dog behind, I would KNOW that something terrible had happened to her. It wasn't a kidnapping for ransom, so it must have been that someone just decided to snatch her off the street.
Although you want to hope, and want to believe, you must know in your heart that something terrible is keeping them from coming home.
Looking at it from the point of view of a man, and this being his pregnant wife - well, of course he would be hoping that a miracle would happen and that she would be okay, but he'd know that the chances are slim.
At the very least, it would consume his thoughts to the point that he wouldn't be able to calmly recite poetry to the woman he had been seeing on the side. Most men would be absolutely consumed with the thought that they had skipped going to a Christmas party with their wife to go to one with their girlfriend, and now that wife was gone, kidnapped, possibly tortured, raped, murdered for her baby.
The regret would be so extreme that he probably wouldn't even want to think of that other woman.
Anyone who watches news stories knows that detectives ALWAYS find out about the "girlfriends" within days of something like this. It would have looked better if he'd just told them himself.
And I still think that he should have taken a private LD test, but that it should have had NOTHING to do with Amber. It should have been between Scott, his attorney, and the private polygrapher. The way he set it up, it made it look like he was more concerned about Amber believing him (so that she'd continue her relationship with him?), than he cared about whether LE and Laci's family and friends believed him.
That's why I asked if perhaps he was having a nervous breakdown. Everyone suspected him: LE, Laci's family, the public, and Amber.
Yet, the only one he seemed to care about convincing was Amber. It was a matter of life & death (Scott's), but he put all of his efforts into convincing the one person who's opinion should have mattered least to him. He even agreed to take a lie detector test, just for her. Why? Why did she matter so much to him, and why did he put his life on the line to convince her while she was throwing accusations at him left & right, and not spend that time trying to convince Laci's family and law enforcement?
Do you know what I mean? I'm really not saying these things to bash Scott. I just can't understand why he acted the way he did, and why he gave such priority to Amber at a time like that.
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Post by guest4life on Feb 23, 2007 17:32:40 GMT -5
To a certain extent, everyone is different. In others way, we're basically all alike.
Imagine that feeling when you look around on the beach and don't see your child who was there a minute ago. I think that everyone reacts the same way in that situation.
But that wasn't really my point. My point was that, no matter how you are responding emotionally, why not do the things that are going to help you, not hurt you.
Why not take a private LD test and give the results to LE (through your attorney), rather than let your girlfriend talk you into one that she chose.
Scott had lots of friends, still: his parents, Anne, Janey, his brothers, and a few of his old friends. Amber wasn't exactly being his "friend", she was just constantly questioning him and accusing him.
Calling Amber just a few minutes before the vigil started could be a lack of common sense, or it could be someone having a nervous breakdown and not realizing what they are doing.
Do you remember Darlie Routier, and how they used the "Silly String" video against her?
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Post by happyhaddock on Feb 23, 2007 19:12:28 GMT -5
... Looking at it from the point of view of a man, and this being his pregnant wife - well, of course he would be hoping that a miracle would happen and that she would be okay, but he'd know that the chances are slim. At the very least, it would consume his thoughts to the point that he wouldn't be able to calmly recite poetry to the woman he had been seeing on the side. Most men would be absolutely consumed with the thought that they had skipped going to a Christmas party with their wife to go to one with their girlfriend, and now that wife was gone, kidnapped, possibly tortured, raped, murdered for her baby. ... I've seen people interviewed whose children were abducted 25 years before and they will tell you that until there is proof, DNA or a skeleton, they NEVER give up the faint hope that they will be found one day. Until the cops arrested him and then told him his wife and child were identified he still had that hope. As for Scott and Amber, that's simply how he is. All his life he has been a peacemaker, always looking to treat people as well as he could. He clearly wanted to dump her but he didn't want to be ruthless about it. "A soft answer turneth away wrath". Me, I'd have dropped her like a dirty rag but I'm not him.
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Post by guest4life on Feb 23, 2007 19:44:38 GMT -5
Scott had family left, but no old friends. He was receiving death threats in the mail, and his old friends, which were mostly him and Laci's friends, had dropped him. Your kid being abducted on a beach which would cause any parent to become frantic, can hardly be comparable to this. Yes someone was missing here, but Scott might have just wanted a friend to talk to who believed him. And during all those taped conversations between him and Amber after Laci was missing, I never heard him initiate any sex-talk. Like I said before, people respond differently to different situations. You would need the analyses of a shrink to answer all of your "whys." He had friends. There was the couple who's pool he had been using. Maybe not a lot of friends, but most people think of their family as friends. I understand that he would have wanted to talk to someone who believed him, but Amber DIDN'T believe him. All she did was fire questions at him and make accusations. It wasn't as if she was soothing him and trying to make him feel better. She didn't have anything to say to him that would have made him feel better. The things she was saying would only have made him feel worse. I didn't say that he wanted to talk to Amber about sex. When did I say that? I also think that a woman disappearing while walking her dog would be similar to the feeling of losing a child on the beach. There's no reason to think that there hasn't been foul play. Look: if you don't want me to post any more about this subject, I won't. I just don't understand why it's not acceptable to say that he did some things that were wrong in the months preceding and after the crime. One of those things was acting as if it was more important to have Amber believe him, than to have Laci's family believe him - and especially, to have LE believe him. Amber was giving him a harder time than Laci's family was. I just wonder why he put Amber in a place of such importance that he'd take a lie detector test just for her, and for her only. She wasn't the one who could arrest him and put him in prison. Sorry if I've offended anyone. I just happen to think that he could have helped himself more than he did, and why he did things that hurt him and made him look bad. Don't you wonder if he regrets it now?
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Post by happyhaddock on Feb 23, 2007 21:21:30 GMT -5
... I understand that he would have wanted to talk to someone who believed him, but Amber DIDN'T believe him. All she did was fire questions at him and make accusations. It wasn't as if she was soothing him and trying to make him feel better. She didn't have anything to say to him that would have made him feel better. The things she was saying would only have made him feel worse. ... IMO the nastier she was to him the more he tried to calm her down. It's clear he's been like that his whole life. But whatever he did say, it's quite clear he never made any admission whatsoever, no matter how hard she pressed him.
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Post by guest4life on Feb 23, 2007 22:40:30 GMT -5
Okay, I'll leave, but I didn't put any words into your mouth. You said that Scott wanted a friend who believed him, and I said that he had friends & family who believed him, but he kept talking to Amber, who DIDN'T believe him.
But no one seems to have a theory on why it was so important to him that Amber believe him and be his friend. He had other people who believed him AND who loved him to talk to.
It just doesn't make sense why he would take a polygraph for Amber, but not take a private one to try to clear himself. It was more important to him to prove himself to one person, when his life was at stake and that one person's opinion meant nothing when it came to whether or not Scott would be arrested and tried.
I realize that your philosophy is that if someone is innocent, you can't admit that they did ANYTHING wrong or made ANY mistakes, and that anyone who doesn't defend 100% of what that person did or said gets chased off to somewhere like fratpack.
Thanks for chasing me off. That will help Scott.
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