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Post by paleone on Sept 9, 2005 13:54:13 GMT -5
I have just one more comment to make: if god is benevolent and is characterized by love, mercy and forgiveness, why is it necessary that good people need to have faith in order to be saved? To me, that is analogous to a police officer that will not protect and serve those that do not like cops. because "good" people are only "good" in society's eyes. we have ALL sinned. Just because society thinks that murder is the "biggest" sin, does not mean that "good" people do not have other sins....sin ranges from pride to coveting other's belongings, to stealing (i wonder if anyone realizes or cares how much tax evasion goes on, that's stealing), "sin" is not just the "big bad stuff". the bible says we have *all* sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. And we are called to repent of this sin. heck, now this is just for proving a point in an almost silly way, but did you know that it is TECHNICALLY illegal to write a post dated check? in fact, a bounced check is actually illegal, when a check is written it is a "demand note" which means the second you sign it, you are entering a "contract" so to speak that you are guaranteeing those funds to the person the check is written to..it's ACTUALLY illegal...and especially the people who "float" their checks, "i'll write it today, i get paid in 2 days, it should be ok" that is technically illegal...i work for a financial institution, i actually know this. obviously it is rare that anyone presses charges, but it's true, it's illegal...
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Post by truth1 on Sept 9, 2005 14:36:26 GMT -5
I have just one more comment to make: if god is benevolent and is characterized by love, mercy and forgiveness, why is it necessary that good people need to have faith in order to be saved? To me, that is analogous to a police officer that will not protect and serve those that do not like cops. because "good" people are only "good" in society's eyes. we have ALL sinned. Just because society thinks that murder is the "biggest" sin, does not mean that "good" people do not have other sins....sin ranges from pride to coveting other's belongings, to stealing (i wonder if anyone realizes or cares how much tax evasion goes on, that's stealing), "sin" is not just the "big bad stuff". the bible says we have *all* sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. And we are called to repent of this sin. heck, now this is just for proving a point in an almost silly way, but did you know that it is TECHNICALLY illegal to write a post dated check? in fact, a bounced check is actually illegal, when a check is written it is a "demand note" which means the second you sign it, you are entering a "contract" so to speak that you are guaranteeing those funds to the person the check is written to..it's ACTUALLY illegal...and especially the people who "float" their checks, "i'll write it today, i get paid in 2 days, it should be ok" that is technically illegal...i work for a financial institution, i actually know this. obviously it is rare that anyone presses charges, but it's true, it's illegal... Don't you think it is a little odd that coveting is a sin? Everyone covets. Even toddlers covet--try to have a plush toy around a toddler and see how fast he/she grabs for it. Almost everything is a sin. The people that wrote the bible wanted to make sure NO ONE was exempt from sin. That way, everyone could be convinced to believe in god.
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Post by paleone on Sept 9, 2005 17:24:55 GMT -5
Don't you think it is a little odd that coveting is a sin? Everyone covets. Even toddlers covet--try to have a plush toy around a toddler and see how fast he/she grabs for it. Almost everything is a sin. The people that wrote the bible wanted to make sure NO ONE was exempt from sin. That way, everyone could be convinced to believe in god. that's the point...everyone is born with the ability to sin. and some sins are obviously much easier to do, such as covet...which is why we are asked to repent of those sins... i would lie if i said i didnt ever sin...and anyone who does say they dont sin is a liar...back in the old testament people had to do all different offerings to cover for their sins..but Jesus covered those requirements as it shows in the scripture i started this thread with.
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Post by truth1 on Sept 12, 2005 9:04:35 GMT -5
Don't you think it is a little odd that coveting is a sin? Everyone covets. Even toddlers covet--try to have a plush toy around a toddler and see how fast he/she grabs for it. Almost everything is a sin. The people that wrote the bible wanted to make sure NO ONE was exempt from sin. That way, everyone could be convinced to believe in god. that's the point...everyone is born with the ability to sin. and some sins are obviously much easier to do, such as covet...which is why we are asked to repent of those sins... i would lie if i said i didnt ever sin...and anyone who does say they dont sin is a liar...back in the old testament people had to do all different offerings to cover for their sins..but Jesus covered those requirements as it shows in the scripture i started this thread with. No one is born with sin. The devil does not exist--it was created to justify christianity. Religion is all about the MONEY. Trust me. I had to join a church in order to get married there, and we had to watch a 30 minute cartoon about "sharing your treasures with god". The message? "Don't buy that new car. Don't buy a new boat--give that money to god. After all--you OWE it to him". I was so pissed off I almost walked out.
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Mo-DAWG
Settlin' In
Yes... this is the real Mo-DAWG ..
Posts: 47
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Post by Mo-DAWG on Sept 12, 2005 9:13:31 GMT -5
that's the point...everyone is born with the ability to sin. and some sins are obviously much easier to do, such as covet...which is why we are asked to repent of those sins... i would lie if i said i didnt ever sin...and anyone who does say they dont sin is a liar...back in the old testament people had to do all different offerings to cover for their sins..but Jesus covered those requirements as it shows in the scripture i started this thread with. No one is born with sin. The devil does not exist--it was created to justify christianity. Religion is all about the MONEY. Trust me. I had to join a church in order to get married there, and we had to watch a 30 minute cartoon about "sharing your treasures with god". The message? "Don't buy that new car. Don't buy a new boat--give that money to god. After all--you OWE it to him". I was so pissed off I almost walked out. truth1 is right ... its really all about money and bigotry about christian religion.... i once thought of becoming a christian but the more i learned about christianity the more i ran from it and knew its not for me... i found my religion and stayed with it not just because it has a long history in my family.....and its a good one that gives me a lot of inner peace and power... well...and its neither bigot nor does it constantly tell me to donate my money "cuz i owe it" ...btw way....what do they mean by saying you "owe" it to god? god is not interested in material things so they should be honest and say WE WANT YOU f*ckING MONEY FOR OUR PURPOSES.... Mo-DAWG
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Post by truth1 on Sept 12, 2005 10:03:59 GMT -5
No one is born with sin. The devil does not exist--it was created to justify christianity. Religion is all about the MONEY. Trust me. I had to join a church in order to get married there, and we had to watch a 30 minute cartoon about "sharing your treasures with god". The message? "Don't buy that new car. Don't buy a new boat--give that money to god. After all--you OWE it to him". I was so pissed off I almost walked out. truth1 is right ... its really all about money and bigotry about christian religion.... i once thought of becoming a christian but the more i learned about christianity the more i ran from it and knew its not for me... i found my religion and stayed with it not just because it has a long history in my family.....and its a good one that gives me a lot of inner peace and power... well...and its neither bigot nor does it constantly tell me to donate my money "cuz i owe it" ...btw way....what do they mean by saying you "owe" it to god? god is not interested in material things so they should be honest and say WE WANT YOU f*ckING MONEY FOR OUR PURPOSES.... Mo-DAWG They think that because someone has a job and has money, they should pay god back because he gave them the skills and intelligence to get that job.
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Mo-DAWG
Settlin' In
Yes... this is the real Mo-DAWG ..
Posts: 47
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Post by Mo-DAWG on Sept 12, 2005 10:16:31 GMT -5
truth1 is right ... its really all about money and bigotry about christian religion.... i once thought of becoming a christian but the more i learned about christianity the more i ran from it and knew its not for me... i found my religion and stayed with it not just because it has a long history in my family.....and its a good one that gives me a lot of inner peace and power... well...and its neither bigot nor does it constantly tell me to donate my money "cuz i owe it" ...btw way....what do they mean by saying you "owe" it to god? god is not interested in material things so they should be honest and say WE WANT YOU f*ckING MONEY FOR OUR PURPOSES.... Mo-DAWG They think that because someone has a job and has money, they should pay god back because he gave them the skills and intelligence to get that job. the right way to pay god back would be good actions of those who can do good for people who are in need of it .... but paying god back does definitely not mean to shove your money up some churchs ยง$%&
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Post by paleone on Sept 12, 2005 10:37:03 GMT -5
No one is born with sin. The devil does not exist--it was created to justify christianity. Religion is all about the MONEY. Trust me. I had to join a church in order to get married there, and we had to watch a 30 minute cartoon about "sharing your treasures with god". The message? "Don't buy that new car. Don't buy a new boat--give that money to god. After all--you OWE it to him". I was so pissed off I almost walked out. that's not what christianity is...that is what man-made denominations do..man-made religion...there were similar people in the bible, the pharisees...they turned "God" into a "religion"...there is a difference between "religion" and having a relationship/faith in God...that's why people like miss_spearment and others that come around throwing scriptures into things without knowing the facts about them upset me..they hear this crap at their little churches and think that it is fact... my pastor preaches straight out of the bible and doesn't "elaborate" his own agenda into the sermon...he even says that if we have any questiosn about how he is presenting the Word, that we can research it to make our own conclusions...the bible says to "test the spirits" and that basically means to test the intentions and "purpose" behind things....most charismatic churches do the whole "money thing" the whole "prosperity teaching" thing and it's not what the bible says... the bible does not say to not own new "things", just because some church forced you to watch some "cartoon" does not mean that God is anywhere within that "cartoon" i am not trying to convert or force you to believe what i believe..but honestly, it's rather sad to me that these churches out here push people away with their agenda and crap... as i said before, i have very good reasons why i believe what i believe...i have faith in my Lord, and i am not here to prove to you He exists, i know He does, and that's why i live the way i live....just don't assume God is represented in all "christians" because i guarantee you He isn't.. also, ok, think about it in another aspect...what if everyone assumed all muslims were terrorists...it's the same thing..just because there are bad seeds and even thousands or millions of bad seeds does not mean that their belief system is the same as the bad seeds
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Post by judywaits4u on Sept 12, 2005 10:54:21 GMT -5
Why would somebody who has no belief in religion want to get married in a church?
In my time as a nurse I havd been with over two hundred people who have died and I have yet to be with an atheist.
I would have thought that the blood and thunder religions were the idea of heaven to a blood thirsty person who supports executing people, whether they are guilty or not.
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Post by truth1 on Sept 12, 2005 13:38:25 GMT -5
No one is born with sin. The devil does not exist--it was created to justify christianity. Religion is all about the MONEY. Trust me. I had to join a church in order to get married there, and we had to watch a 30 minute cartoon about "sharing your treasures with god". The message? "Don't buy that new car. Don't buy a new boat--give that money to god. After all--you OWE it to him". I was so pissed off I almost walked out. that's not what christianity is...that is what man-made denominations do..man-made religion...there were similar people in the bible, the pharisees...they turned "God" into a "religion"...there is a difference between "religion" and having a relationship/faith in God...that's why people like miss_spearment and others that come around throwing scriptures into things without knowing the facts about them upset me..they hear this crap at their little churches and think that it is fact... my pastor preaches straight out of the bible and doesn't "elaborate" his own agenda into the sermon...he even says that if we have any questiosn about how he is presenting the Word, that we can research it to make our own conclusions...the bible says to "test the spirits" and that basically means to test the intentions and "purpose" behind things....most charismatic churches do the whole "money thing" the whole "prosperity teaching" thing and it's not what the bible says... the bible does not say to not own new "things", just because some church forced you to watch some "cartoon" does not mean that God is anywhere within that "cartoon" i am not trying to convert or force you to believe what i believe..but honestly, it's rather sad to me that these churches out here push people away with their agenda and crap... as i said before, i have very good reasons why i believe what i believe...i have faith in my Lord, and i am not here to prove to you He exists, i know He does, and that's why i live the way i live....just don't assume God is represented in all "christians" because i guarantee you He isn't.. also, ok, think about it in another aspect...what if everyone assumed all muslims were terrorists...it's the same thing..just because there are bad seeds and even thousands or millions of bad seeds does not mean that their belief system is the same as the bad seeds I think all religion is manipulative.
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Post by wyldflowers on Sept 14, 2005 23:50:40 GMT -5
This is why i believe is sepration of church and state...
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Post by swebb on Sept 15, 2005 0:38:31 GMT -5
Ha, ha I am a former member of the Church of the Latter Day Saints AKA Mormons. Sorry to anyone in advance that I might offend who is Mormon on here for what I am about to say but you got to be on smack to believe in that religion! I was born into it and had no choice until I left home and became a soldier in the USAF which total goes against any principal for a female Mormon, why I was supposed to go to BYU and find me a nice hubby and have 12 kids! Mormons can't make up their minds whether they want blacks in the church today or tomorrow, they have to ask some prophet in Utah! And they have sects still marrying many women when it is totally illegal in our country to do so! The Mormons when they came to Utah in the early 1800's on the Mormon Trail used the Native Americans to get to Utah to protect them cause they were getting slaughtered as they went through every state cause everyone knew that Brigham young and Joseph smith were Tax evaders! When they finally got to Utah they killed 5 thousand native Americans that helped them cross the trail! Mormon women live in a land of delusion and the most important thing to them is whether or not they will learn to play the piano well at BYU? Gimme a break! They look down on people who have a glass of Coke when they own most of the stock of the Coca Cola company!! they forbid drinking of any kind and refuse to believe that Jesus turned water into wine but turned it into Welches Grape juice! My point of this soap box was not just to point out the obsurdities of this religion but of all organized religions and to say What Would Jesus Do? do you think if he can back to earth and he saw how the churches were he would say that any of these churches are the "true" church? I think NOT! Again sorry Mormons but your got to admit to yourself where the heck are those gold tablets that Joseph Smith transcribe? don't you think he would have jacked one of them for proof? that's the point...everyone is born with the ability to sin. and some sins are obviously much easier to do, such as covet...which is why we are asked to repent of those sins... i would lie if i said i didnt ever sin...and anyone who does say they dont sin is a liar...back in the old testament people had to do all different offerings to cover for their sins..but Jesus covered those requirements as it shows in the scripture i started this thread with. No one is born with sin. The devil does not exist--it was created to justify christianity. Religion is all about the MONEY. Trust me. I had to join a church in order to get married there, and we had to watch a 30 minute cartoon about "sharing your treasures with god". The message? "Don't buy that new car. Don't buy a new boat--give that money to god. After all--you OWE it to him". I was so pissed off I almost walked out.
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Post by moghirl on Sept 15, 2005 1:40:34 GMT -5
Ha, ha I am a former member of the Church of the Latter Day Saints AKA Mormons. Sorry to anyone in advance that I might offend who is Mormon on here for what I am about to say but you got to be on smack to believe in that religion! I was born into it and had no choice until I left home and became a soldier in the USAF which total goes against any principal for a female Mormon, why I was supposed to go to BYU and find me a nice hubby and have 12 kids! Mormons can't make up their minds whether they want blacks in the church today or tomorrow, they have to ask some prophet in Utah! And they have sects still marrying many women when it is totally illegal in our country to do so! The Mormons when they came to Utah in the early 1800's on the Mormon Trail used the Native Americans to get to Utah to protect them cause they were getting slaughtered as they went through every state cause everyone knew that Brigham young and Joseph smith were Tax evaders! When they finally got to Utah they killed 5 thousand native Americans that helped them cross the trail! Mormon women live in a land of delusion and the most important thing to them is whether or not they will learn to play the piano well at BYU? Gimme a break! They look down on people who have a glass of Coke when they own most of the stock of the Coca Cola company!! they forbid drinking of any kind and refuse to believe that Jesus turned water into wine but turned it into Welches Grape juice! My point of this soap box was not just to point out the obsurdities of this religion but of all organized religions and to say What Would Jesus Do? do you think if he can back to earth and he saw how the churches were he would say that any of these churches are the "true" church? I think NOT! Again sorry Mormons but your got to admit to yourself where the heck are those gold tablets that Joseph Smith transcribe? don't you think he would have jacked one of them for proof? No one is born with sin. The devil does not exist--it was created to justify christianity. Religion is all about the MONEY. Trust me. I had to join a church in order to get married there, and we had to watch a 30 minute cartoon about "sharing your treasures with god". The message? "Don't buy that new car. Don't buy a new boat--give that money to god. After all--you OWE it to him". I was so pissed off I almost walked out. Yes, I've watched a few documentaries about this church and it felt really creepy. One man had 5 different wives and 20+ children, all living in the same house, stuck out in the wilderness, miles away from anywhere, which meant the kids never got to mix with anyone except their own 'extended' family Even though it's against the law, they still seem to be getting away with it I wondered why and how they could survive with no one in the house going out to work, how come they seem to be wealthy, I'm curious about that? I, too, was born into a family of 'organised' religion and had a hard time convincing my Mum especially, when I became a teenager, that I didn't want to continue going to church because there were just too many questions that couldn't be answered for me.
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Post by swebb on Sept 15, 2005 9:52:57 GMT -5
They all survive and become wealthy because they take advantage of the social servivces programs of the government! And due to the fact that the government doesn't recognize there marriage and these woman all have these bunches of kids with this one man and they make sure that htey live in seperate households so that they can claim welfare and foood stamps them the woman live in the same household together they can share the wealth! Seems like a crazy life to me? Ha, ha I am a former member of the Church of the Latter Day Saints AKA Mormons. Sorry to anyone in advance that I might offend who is Mormon on here for what I am about to say but you got to be on smack to believe in that religion! I was born into it and had no choice until I left home and became a soldier in the USAF which total goes against any principal for a female Mormon, why I was supposed to go to BYU and find me a nice hubby and have 12 kids! Mormons can't make up their minds whether they want blacks in the church today or tomorrow, they have to ask some prophet in Utah! And they have sects still marrying many women when it is totally illegal in our country to do so! The Mormons when they came to Utah in the early 1800's on the Mormon Trail used the Native Americans to get to Utah to protect them cause they were getting slaughtered as they went through every state cause everyone knew that Brigham young and Joseph smith were Tax evaders! When they finally got to Utah they killed 5 thousand native Americans that helped them cross the trail! Mormon women live in a land of delusion and the most important thing to them is whether or not they will learn to play the piano well at BYU? Gimme a break! They look down on people who have a glass of Coke when they own most of the stock of the Coca Cola company!! they forbid drinking of any kind and refuse to believe that Jesus turned water into wine but turned it into Welches Grape juice! My point of this soap box was not just to point out the obsurdities of this religion but of all organized religions and to say What Would Jesus Do? do you think if he can back to earth and he saw how the churches were he would say that any of these churches are the "true" church? I think NOT! Again sorry Mormons but your got to admit to yourself where the heck are those gold tablets that Joseph Smith transcribe? don't you think he would have jacked one of them for proof? Yes, I've watched a few documentaries about this church and it felt really creepy. One man had 5 different wives and 20+ children, all living in the same house, stuck out in the wilderness, miles away from anywhere, which meant the kids never got to mix with anyone except their own 'extended' family Even though it's against the law, they still seem to be getting away with it I wondered why and how they could survive with no one in the house going out to work, how come they seem to be wealthy, I'm curious about that? I, too, was born into a family of 'organised' religion and had a hard time convincing my Mum especially, when I became a teenager, that I didn't want to continue going to church because there were just too many questions that couldn't be answered for me.
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Post by paleone on Sept 17, 2005 10:24:51 GMT -5
I am cross posting this because some people do not read all the threads, so i wanted to share my friends's words on this:
"Say to them, As I live, says the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked..." Ezekiel 33:11
God is holy, righteous and just; but He is not vindictive. He is full of mercy and grace, not wanting any of us to perish.
Which of us is righteous enough to administer the injection, to pull the switch, to wear the hangman's hood? I know I'm not...
Being Pro-Life means to me ALL human life - rich or poor, young or old, guilty or innocent - and none of us is truly innocent - God have mercy on us all. (How could I be Pro-Life and Pro-Death Penalty?)
"Speak and act as people who will be judged by the law that sets us free. For God will not show mercy when he judges the person who has not been merciful; but mercy triumphs over judgment!" James 2:12-13
Thank God that His mercy triumphs over His judgment...because without His grace we all stand condemned before Him.
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