jj
New Arrival
Posts: 5
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Post by jj on May 30, 2005 6:45:36 GMT -5
You have your right to how you feel just as pros do lili, so I do not think you should say that the way a person feels is wrong. What if they think you are wrong. ? What if I think you are wrong? Is the fact that they killed a person not wrong? ? Is the fact that the state killed a human being wrong? I think it is, so am I wrong? IS the the fact that they hurt an innocent family as well as there own not wrong?? Is the fact that the state hurts an innocent family(inmates family AND friends) when they execute an inmate wrong? So why is a pro is wrong because they believe in the DP and you dont? ? So why is an ANTI wrong because they don't believe in the taking of a human life, no matter who it is wrong and your not? Why not just try to reach a understanding with eachother and work from there? The only understanding PRO DP people want is that we believe in the death penalty. That is a compromise I will not ever make. Am I wrong in this decision?
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Post by Lili on May 30, 2005 10:56:46 GMT -5
You have your right to how you feel just as pros do lili, so I do not think you should say that the way a person feels is wrong. What if they think you are wrong. Is the fact that they killed a person not wrong? IS the the fact that they hurt an innocent family as well as there own not wrong? So why is a pro is wrong because they believe in the DP and you dont? I’ve never said that killing a person is NOT wrong! I’ve never said that hurting an innocent family is NOT wrong! That’s why I am against the DP.
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Post by Lili on May 30, 2005 11:01:02 GMT -5
Why not just try to reach a understanding with eachother and work from there? I am not sure if we can ever reach an understanding. I am absolutely sure that I am right. So are you. But…there is only one thing that is ABSOLUT...and that is vodka…
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Post by maxine on May 30, 2005 11:15:26 GMT -5
What if I think you are wrong?
You may "think" whatever you wish, that doesnt necessarily make you right nor does it make me wrong. The key here is that I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
Is the fact that the state killed a human being wrong? I think it is, so am I wrong?
The state executed a murderer because the murderer chose to murder an innocent person. If the criminal had not made the decision to murder, the state would not need to execute them in order to achieve justice. You believe that execution is wrong, that is your belief, however, the murderer was condemned as a result of a heinous act which was also wrong.
Is the fact that the state hurts an innocent family(inmates family AND friends) when they execute an inmate wrong?
The state executes in order to achieve justice for the murder committed by the condemned inmate. The decision to commit the murder was not the states but the murderers. The execution is justice, the pain caused to the family and friends of the condemned is directly caused by the decision of the inmate to murder. When making the decision to murder, the murderer is fully aware that the dp is applied in cases of capital murder, he makes a choice and the dp is the consequence. He has hurt his family and friends by committing the murder. If the murderer valued the emotional wellbeing of his friends and family he would not have caused their pain and would have chosen not to commit murder.
So why is an ANTI wrong because they don't believe in the taking of a human life, no matter who it is wrong and your not?
If the imposition of the dp is constitutionally appropriate and imposed by juries then despite your views it is not unlawful. There is a clear ideological difference between antis and pros, antis do not accept that the dp is justice, pros do not accept that lwop is always justice. As stated earlier, both sides think they are right.
The only understanding PRO DP people want is that we believe in the death penalty. That is a compromise I will not ever make. Am I wrong in this decision?
The dp exists, that is a matter of fact. Whether you believe in it or not is a matter of ethical choice. I dont think that it makes any difference whether you believe in the dp or not, it is the judicial system and the constitution which are of direct relevance to pros rather than the views of antis
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jj
New Arrival
Posts: 5
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Post by jj on May 30, 2005 12:01:43 GMT -5
The dp exists, that is a matter of fact. Whether you believe in it or not is a matter of ethical choice. I dont think that it makes any difference whether you believe in the dp or not, it is the judicial system and the constitution which are of direct relevance to pros rather than the views of antis
Not every state has the death penalty which means not everyone believes in it. For the states that do have it, there are many people fighting against it because they do not believe in it. Just because at the moment it is supposedly "legal", the "law" does not mean it will remain and that every one believes in it. The death penalty is on it's way out. The times are changing and the laws are changing. It may take a few years, but you will see the abolishment of the death penalty.
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Post by catskillz on May 30, 2005 12:35:30 GMT -5
Agreed. Wrong, u seem to forget that the system is full of flaws, and innocents are executed among the guilty. To me, this has nothing to do with the ethical question of pro-anti DP in itself. Is murdering innocents justice? (and, yes i know its a small minority.. doesnt matter). 'U pro's' generally seem to ignore these FACTS, while some admit they take that for granted (i can't disagree more, but at least they are honest..). Your seem to reduce my motivation to 'murdering is wrong', while i base my belief on facts and factual arguments, rather than on a perception of 'justice'. If your perception of justice means that it is ok to execute one innocent man out of a hundred, i start doubting that same justice argument.. justice doesn't mean justice for a few, it means justice for all. Nice one liner, but far from reality.. Throwing all cases and persons on 1 big pile is short sighted. I think both sides are 'right' in their opinion only when it comes to a "justice" argument, the rest doesn't hold much.. I, as many others, have provided enough 'non emotional' and rational arguments in support of my belief (don't point only too the emotional and ethical arguments now cause i'm sure there are plenty as well, however these do not undermine the rational ones). I agree the DP isn't unlawfull, cause whats in the law is in the law. But because it is in the law, it doesn't neccesarily be justice in the way u look at 'justice'. When hitler killed millions of jews it was in the law, so u call that justice too? Ethical? Yeh i find it ethical to not have the DP because of the reasons i've stated before. I don't find the "extra justice over LWOP" that is given too the murder victims family wighing up agains innocent people being executed. What does the DP bring in ADDITION to LWOP that would justify that?? Nobody can deny it is happening. Anyone who denies it either doesn't want to know or doesn't care and takes it for granted. Therefor, with LWOP as alternative, i think its QUITE ethical to abolish the DP.. I don't see how one can use the ethics argument as a motivation in favour of the DP, when knowingly killing innocents isn't condidered unethical at the same time. Beest catz
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Post by freerob on May 30, 2005 14:46:50 GMT -5
Agreed. Wrong, u seem to forget that the system is full of flaws, and innocents are executed among the guilty. To me, this has nothing to do with the ethical question of pro-anti DP in itself. Is murdering innocents justice? (and, yes i know its a small minority.. doesnt matter). 'U pro's' generally seem to ignore these FACTS, while some admit they take that for granted (i can't disagree more, but at least they are honest..). Your seem to reduce my motivation to 'murdering is wrong', while i base my belief on facts and factual arguments, rather than on a perception of 'justice'. If your perception of justice means that it is ok to execute one innocent man out of a hundred, i start doubting that same justice argument.. justice doesn't mean justice for a few, it means justice for all. Nice one liner, but far from reality.. Throwing all cases and persons on 1 big pile is short sighted. I think both sides are 'right' in their opinion only when it comes to a "justice" argument, the rest doesn't hold much.. I, as many others, have provided enough 'non emotional' and rational arguments in support of my belief (don't point only too the emotional and ethical arguments now cause i'm sure there are plenty as well, however these do not undermine the rational ones). I agree the DP isn't unlawfull, cause whats in the law is in the law. But because it is in the law, it doesn't neccesarily be justice in the way u look at 'justice'. When hitler killed millions of jews it was in the law, so u call that justice too? Ethical? Yeh i find it ethical to not have the DP because of the reasons i've stated before. I don't find the "extra justice over LWOP" that is given too the murder victims family wighing up agains innocent people being executed. What does the DP bring in ADDITION to LWOP that would justify that?? Nobody can deny it is happening. Anyone who denies it either doesn't want to know or doesn't care and takes it for granted. Therefor, with LWOP as alternative, i think its QUITE ethical to abolish the DP.. I don't see how one can use the ethics argument as a motivation in favour of the DP, when knowingly killing innocents isn't condidered unethical at the same time. Beest catz Perhaps these 'PRO'S' should live in Europe/UK. We sit and watch in DISBELIEF at the justice system in America. 'WE' being the general public. NOT Georgie Bush's lap poodle, BLAGHHHHHHH. Sorry, Blair. Here, we are civilised. Sorry to offend. However, we control, well here in the UK, mass murderers, serial killers and the like and place them in prison for life. No, we do not MURDER our own people. We (The UK) realised the inhumane practice that is IS, almost 60, YES, 60 YEARS AGO!!! America is no different from Iraq, or the Baath Party should I say. Make LAWS so you can KILL, justify it and the average man can't complain.... GEEZE! Your law makers are a**holes! Good luck to America! You vote these jokers into Government!!!!! If you want change, CHANGE YOUR VOTE and get with us lot in Europe. NO DEATH PENALTY! it's nothing more than legalised "MURDER". I rest my case!
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Post by ela on May 30, 2005 14:55:10 GMT -5
Hey... talking about this.. yeah.. I am proud to be italian.... So sorry to have Berlusconi as president.. but My region, Tuscany, was the first in the whole world to abolish death penalty in 1786! ( Granducato di Toscana) And this is real history about Europe... We had again death penalty only for very few years during Fascism.. but that's all... it was abolished as soon as fascism declined... thanx God...
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Post by freerob on May 30, 2005 15:01:57 GMT -5
Hey... talking about this.. yeah.. I am proud to be italian.... So sorry to have Berlusconi as president.. but My region, Tuscany, was the first in the whole world to abolish death penalty in 1786! ( Granducato di Toscana) And this is real history about Europe... We had again death penalty only for very few years during Fascism.. but that's all... it was abolished as soon as fascism declined... thanx God... EXACTLY ela, we are CIVILISED people! We don't go around injecting drugs that a VET would NEVER administer to a pet, yet the good ole US of A does TO IT'S OWN PEOPLE!!! What a SAD justice system. I just can not EVER understand any Pro's understanding. I hear SO many times the old quote, "An eye for an eye".... yeah OLD Testiment... what WAS JESUS about? Oh yeah.... FORGIVENESS!!! Anyone relate?
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Post by ela on May 30, 2005 15:09:00 GMT -5
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Post by Missyme on May 30, 2005 19:32:24 GMT -5
I like it when someone said they inmate is being murdered, he committed suicide.
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jj
New Arrival
Posts: 5
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Post by jj on May 30, 2005 21:47:12 GMT -5
I like it when someone said they inmate is being murdered, he committed suicide. Wrong thing to say on this board.
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Post by Missyme on May 30, 2005 21:53:34 GMT -5
There are many things from both sides that are the wrong thing to say on this board or any board for that fact.
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Post by mikebook on May 30, 2005 22:14:08 GMT -5
Actually, the deceased was executed. Not murdered. The guy or girl being executed has had all the protections that we have built into the system. He has had a trial, a judge, a jury, a lwyer, and several appeals that take years to cycle through the system. Which is far more than the victim ever had. That is the correct term...Executed. By the actions that he or she chose to do...
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Post by Lili on May 31, 2005 3:08:14 GMT -5
Actually, the deceased was executed. Not murdered. The guy or girl being executed has had all the protections that we have built into the system. He has had a trial, a judge, a jury, a lwyer, and several appeals that take years to cycle through the system. Which is far more than the victim ever had. That is the correct term...Executed. By the actions that he or she chose to do... This is a grave of one of the Salem witches. She was pressed to death!..ooohhh, executed, pardon!..She had a trial too and a jury..
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