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Post by attitude on Mar 20, 2006 22:47:11 GMT -5
We have troops in Iraq as well. We have had two casualties in Iraq and one in Afganistan...while people are disgusted at Howard for what happened they are of the belief that we need to stay there until Iraq is stabilised... I think all those who voted for GWB to be President must accept their part in the death of over 2,000 service personell since he took office. He is pushing as hard as he can for an invasion of Iran, he wants to start WWIII, do people who voted for him not feel guilty for all the suffering they have caused by making this cretin President. Love and hugs, Judy I did NOT vote for Bush. Still, I feel some guilt about the fact that my country is acting so badly. I do plan to participate in an anti-war rally tomorrow, in the hope that in some small way my protest will make a difference. I have to take some public stand against the war. I don't think Bush cares what the people want, but sometimes you have to do something for your own sanity. There are some dedicated folks who rally every single Friday evening. The father of Nicholas Berg, who was killed so brutally, is among those who stand up against this war each week. I should do that when I'm not having to work on Fridays. This weekend marks the third year since Iraq was invaded. It's strange. Bush's popularity ratings are in the tank, but not so much because the U.S. invaded as that the U.S. isn't winning. I don't understand people in this country.
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Post by skyloom on Mar 27, 2006 12:00:40 GMT -5
If you are into voting...I will tell you about my nation 1) Voting is compulsory...ie you get fined if you don't vote 2) We have less restrictions on convicted felons voting (ie ones out of prison) 3) We use a preferential voting system...ie when you vote rather then ticking the candidate you want you have to effectively rank them... I think the effect of these means Australia gets a more universal voice in who governs them. It sounds as if you do! I don't know how well fines would fly in the U.S., but I do think it's alarming when only about half the population votes. I'm not sure why the turnout is so low in the U.S. Maybe it's because people don't think their votes count. Maybe it's because there doesn't seem to be much difference between the two main political parties. Personally, I see no reason at all to prevent felons from voting. That makes no sense at all. There's been some talk of instant runoff voting also, which sounds as if it might work well, but I think our two parties are so entrenched and powerful now that neither party would permit it to happen. The best chance seems to be to abolish our Electoral College. It is an anachronism at this point and would certainly seem to give voters more direct input into the election process. But we in the U.S. have short attention spans. Presidential elections are three years off, so there probably won't be much discussion about election reforms of any sort until the wrong guy wins again. Then... too late!
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Post by judywaits4u on Mar 28, 2006 5:35:51 GMT -5
Dear Cyclone, In England people in prison cannot vote but once they are released they can, simple as that.
When it comes to people in mental health hospitals, as long as they can understand why they are voting and what they are voting for, they can vote.
The complex system in the USA is truly baffling.
I believe in Australia you have a choice of voting for "No suitable candidate"? So though you are compelled to go to the polling station, you are not actually compelled to vote for anybody.?
Love and hugs, Judy
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Post by catsan77 on May 10, 2006 12:46:24 GMT -5
I believe that those executed are victims. They are victims of poverty, racism, socio-economic disadvantages, and varying degrees of mental illness. I speak here of substance abuse in all its forms. For those who commit murder who are not burdened by these factors, there are myriad others: each based upon the uncontrolled primal human emotional spectrum. For the state to victimize them furthers the violence within society. Behind each victim there is a human being, whether it be the victim of a heinous murder or the victim of the state. that is quite pathetic. Do poor families forget to tell their kids that killing is wrong?
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Post by skyloom on May 22, 2006 14:54:41 GMT -5
They probably are victims in that respect...but what right did they have to inflict their misery on another...what you are doing is moving responsibility away from the individual.....many people suffer from the factors that you mention and still refrain from violent crime What right did their tormentors have to inflict misery on them? Sure, there are people who are abused and still manage to turn out fairly well as adults. Imagine what they might have accomplished had they not had to give over years of their lives to the task of straightening themselves out. And individual responsibility? What about individual differences? We have three children who actually look very much alike but that's where it ends. Our oldest, the workaholic, would give you the shirt off his back but never asks for anything from anybody. Our daughter works hard also, but if she needs or wants something she has no qualms about asking and "Miss Brass Ovaries" gets what she asks for every time. Our youngest is the dreamer and the idealist who hurts for everyone who is hurting. If, heaven forbid, any of them had been abused, the oldest would work it out himself, the middle child would ask for help until she got it, and the youngest would hurt and probably not be able to recover from the betrayal or to trust people for a very long time. So please don't talk about individual responsibility until you are ready to talk about individual differences. Our children were all raised in the same family, with the same parents, and were born within eight years of one another, but each would respond to whatever abuse or neglect came his or her way entirely differently. Thank heaven none of them faced severe poverty, poor education, abuse, or mental illness (our daughter did face some anti-Semitism in kindergarten, but we handled that for her). Still, each would respond in a different way, and I hope that each of them know how lucky they were and that they have compassion for those who are not so fortunate and not so strong. I believe that those executed are victims. They are victims of poverty, racism, socio-economic disadvantages, and varying degrees of mental illness. I speak here of substance abuse in all its forms. For those who commit murder who are not burdened by these factors, there are myriad others: each based upon the uncontrolled primal human emotional spectrum. For the state to victimize them furthers the violence within society. Behind each victim there is a human being, whether it be the victim of a heinous murder or the victim of the state.
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Post by sclcookie on May 22, 2006 23:37:04 GMT -5
very well put, skyloom
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Post by attitude on May 24, 2006 3:11:48 GMT -5
As much as you know your children they may at times suprise you. Murder is wrong, no matter who you are and where you come from. It is an absolute value in this world. Who you are is irrelevant. Generally I believe the graver the criminal act the less mitigating circumstances should be. This means, when considering mitigating circumstances when sentencing a defendant the judge or jury should place less importance on them when they are sentencing for murder compared with common assault. This is because the victim's need for justice is a great deal higher with murder. Yes I believe if a young guy from a bad home pinches a car, give him a second chance. However if he is upset at the world and decides to kill a random person. Sorry no second chance. They probably are victims in that respect...but what right did they have to inflict their misery on another...what you are doing is moving responsibility away from the individual.....many people suffer from the factors that you mention and still refrain from violent crime What right did their tormentors have to inflict misery on them? Sure, there are people who are abused and still manage to turn out fairly well as adults. Imagine what they might have accomplished had they not had to give over years of their lives to the task of straightening themselves out. And individual responsibility? What about individual differences? We have three children who actually look very much alike but that's where it ends. Our oldest, the workaholic, would give you the shirt off his back but never asks for anything from anybody. Our daughter works hard also, but if she needs or wants something she has no qualms about asking and "Miss Brass Ovaries" gets what she asks for every time. Our youngest is the dreamer and the idealist who hurts for everyone who is hurting. If, heaven forbid, any of them had been abused, the oldest would work it out himself, the middle child would ask for help until she got it, and the youngest would hurt and probably not be able to recover from the betrayal or to trust people for a very long time. So please don't talk about individual responsibility until you are ready to talk about individual differences. Our children were all raised in the same family, with the same parents, and were born within eight years of one another, but each would respond to whatever abuse or neglect came his or her way entirely differently. Thank heaven none of them faced severe poverty, poor education, abuse, or mental illness (our daughter did face some anti-Semitism in kindergarten, but we handled that for her). Still, each would respond in a different way, and I hope that each of them know how lucky they were and that they have compassion for those who are not so fortunate and not so strong. I believe that those executed are victims. They are victims of poverty, racism, socio-economic disadvantages, and varying degrees of mental illness. I speak here of substance abuse in all its forms. For those who commit murder who are not burdened by these factors, there are myriad others: each based upon the uncontrolled primal human emotional spectrum. For the state to victimize them furthers the violence within society. Behind each victim there is a human being, whether it be the victim of a heinous murder or the victim of the state.
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Post by sclcookie on May 24, 2006 7:35:27 GMT -5
As much as you know your children they may at times suprise you. Murder is wrong, no matter who you are and where you come from. It is an absolute value in this world. Who you are is irrelevant. Generally I believe the graver the criminal act the less mitigating circumstances should be. This means, when considering mitigating circumstances when sentencing a defendant the judge or jury should place less importance on them when they are sentencing for murder compared with common assault. This is because the victim's need for justice is a great deal higher with murder. Yes I believe if a young guy from a bad home pinches a car, give him a second chance. However if he is upset at the world and decides to kill a random person. Sorry no second chance. What right did their tormentors have to inflict misery on them? Sure, there are people who are abused and still manage to turn out fairly well as adults. Imagine what they might have accomplished had they not had to give over years of their lives to the task of straightening themselves out. And individual responsibility? What about individual differences? We have three children who actually look very much alike but that's where it ends. Our oldest, the workaholic, would give you the shirt off his back but never asks for anything from anybody. Our daughter works hard also, but if she needs or wants something she has no qualms about asking and "Miss Brass Ovaries" gets what she asks for every time. Our youngest is the dreamer and the idealist who hurts for everyone who is hurting. If, heaven forbid, any of them had been abused, the oldest would work it out himself, the middle child would ask for help until she got it, and the youngest would hurt and probably not be able to recover from the betrayal or to trust people for a very long time. So please don't talk about individual responsibility until you are ready to talk about individual differences. Our children were all raised in the same family, with the same parents, and were born within eight years of one another, but each would respond to whatever abuse or neglect came his or her way entirely differently. Thank heaven none of them faced severe poverty, poor education, abuse, or mental illness (our daughter did face some anti-Semitism in kindergarten, but we handled that for her). Still, each would respond in a different way, and I hope that each of them know how lucky they were and that they have compassion for those who are not so fortunate and not so strong. LWOP doesn't give murderers second chances. Plus we are proventing killing someone who may be innocent.....therefore, we won't be making the ultimate mistake in killing someone for a crime they did not commit. Remember Johnny Frank Garrett and Cameron Todd Willingham. If you haven't researched their cases, please do so. hugggz, Suzanne
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Post by phoenix on Oct 29, 2007 8:18:27 GMT -5
maybe someone on this board can help me with my vote. I am not 100% sure. Yes someone on DR can be a victim of their own stupidity. They know the laws, they know the consequences and yet they still decide to "shake hands with the devil." So, it is their own fault, their own hand commiting the act of murder that got them on death row.
on the other hand.....
they are not victims because they were fully aware of what they were doing.
WE ALL HAVE CHOICES. ITS JUST WHETHER WE MAKE THE RIGHT ONE.
Btw cacuasian males make up half of those on death row compared to african americans..so it isn't racist ( I read this in an article)
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Post by happyhaddock on Oct 29, 2007 22:50:15 GMT -5
maybe someone on this board can help me with my vote. I am not 100% sure. Yes someone on DR can be a victim of their own stupidity. They know the laws, they know the consequences and yet they still decide to "shake hands with the devil." So, it is their own fault, their own hand commiting the act of murder that got them on death row. on the other hand..... they are not victims because they were fully aware of what they were doing. WE ALL HAVE CHOICES. ITS JUST WHETHER WE MAKE THE RIGHT ONE. Btw cacuasian males make up half of those on death row compared to african americans..so it isn't racist ( I read this in an article) Sure it is racist. The percentage on DR ought to be the percentage in the population, but that isn't how the system is configured: Details
... Suspicion immediately fell on two of the custodians, Brandley and Henry (Icky) Peace, who had found the body. During their joint interrogation — as Peace would recount — Texas Ranger Wesley Styles told them, “One of you is going to have to hang for this” and then, turning to Brandley, added, “Since you’re the nigger, you’re elected.” ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Brandley
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Post by legallybrunette on Oct 30, 2007 9:33:20 GMT -5
I started reading this thread and then got terribly confused - is it a debate about victims or Bush/Twig??!!! Both are interesting to read your opinions on though, I have to admit On the victims issue, I have pondered that quite a lot over the past few years, based on I disagreeociation with both my penpal and his mother. He bemoans his lot a great deal and complains about the State being the cause of all his misfortunes and never touches upon his own responsibility for what happened. That said, he is a kind person in his own right and remarkably intelligent and articulate and it pains me to think of the State destroying that life merely for the purposes of vengeance. There can be no other purpose served by his life being brought to an end, whatsoever. I would invite readers to tell me what genuine purpose his execution could serve to society at large, as an act in isolation of all else.His mother meantime, sees the man who will always be her little boy in her mind, facing the end of his life in a horrible way and she has no means at her disposal of avoiding the inevitable. It hangs over her head as much as his, like a nightmare without end. She was shunned by her peers and community alike, during and following the trial and now lives without friends or family as support. She has done no wrong but pays a heavy price.
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