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Post by sclcookie on Mar 14, 2006 5:18:03 GMT -5
Well, this is a touchy subject, I have to admit. If it get's too upsetting, I won't be upset if another mod deletes it.
Now, this poll isn't open for new pros to come in here and vote and bash our cause. Those pros who come in here to cause trouble will be banned, so please don't take this as your invitation to come in here.
If it's not upsetting to anyone, please, vote and give me your reason(s).
I'm voting yes, because though that person may have murdered someone. When we kill that person, and they are not wanting to die, we (those who support the death penalty that is) are taking their lives.
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Post by attitude on Mar 15, 2006 4:59:25 GMT -5
You can probably see how I voted.
No the inmate should be the last one I would call a victim. Once again we see this moral equivalence thing happening again. (ie equating execution to murder) Please remember that they wouldn't be there if they had not killed anyone...as someone said if they are a victim it is that they are a victim of their own actions..
Now I am not into gloating over an execution and do remember that the families of the inmates do suffer, and they have done nothing wrong.....
If murderers didn't want to die they should not have killed someone....even if you don't agree with the penalty you still do not commit the crime
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Post by skyloom on Mar 15, 2006 11:41:29 GMT -5
You can probably see how I voted. No the inmate should be the last one I would call a victim. Once again we see this moral equivalence thing happening again. (ie equating execution to murder) Please remember that they wouldn't be there if they had not killed anyone...as someone said if they are a victim it is that they are a victim of their own actions.. Now I am not into gloating over an execution and do remember that the families of the inmates do suffer, and they have done nothing wrong..... If murderers didn't want to die they should not have killed someone....even if you don't agree with the penalty you still do not commit the crime "We are told by those seeking to rev up the killing machine that those on death row are monsters, who deserve to die for their brutality. And indeed, some among the condemned have committed truly heinous atrocities, about which none should remain sanguine. But the question has never been, "do killers deserve to die," but rather, does the state deserve to kill: a different question, requiring a different deliberation. For if we believe these "monsters" thought so little of their victims that they treated them as disposable garbage, how ironic is it that we would ratify this mindset of human disposability, give it voice and the sanction of the state; that we would second that emotion, as it were. And all to show how much we respect human life, which makes as much sense as stealing a stereo from one who takes your car, to show how much we respect personal property." www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/monstersandvampires.html |
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Post by janet on Mar 15, 2006 13:31:04 GMT -5
I believe that those executed are victims. They are victims of poverty, racism, socio-economic disadvantages, and varying degrees of mental illness. I speak here of substance abuse in all its forms. For those who commit murder who are not burdened by these factors, there are myriad others: each based upon the uncontrolled primal human emotional spectrum. For the state to victimize them furthers the violence within society.
Behind each victim there is a human being, whether it be the victim of a heinous murder or the victim of the state.
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Post by sclcookie on Mar 16, 2006 5:34:15 GMT -5
"does the state deserve to kill".......skyloom, that's one of the best way to explain it. It's like when we vote for state officials to be able to execute, give jurors the power to sentence someone to death, we are giving them the POWER TO KILL.
Those who support executions, especially the ones who cheer the executioners on, OMG, THEY ARE MONSTERS THEMSELVES!
Everyone who votes for, supports, endorses, whatever for the death penalty is promoting killing another human being. They allow such killings aka murders.
May God Forgive Them.
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Post by judywaits4u on Mar 17, 2006 5:21:06 GMT -5
I think all those who voted for GWB to be President must accept their part in the death of over 2,000 service personell since he took office. He is pushing as hard as he can for an invasion of Iran, he wants to start WWIII, do people who voted for him not feel guilty for all the suffering they have caused by making this cretin President.
Love and hugs,
Judy
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Post by skyloom on Mar 17, 2006 19:21:17 GMT -5
I think all those who voted for GWB to be President must accept their part in the death of over 2,000 service personell since he took office. He is pushing as hard as he can for an invasion of Iran, he wants to start WWIII, do people who voted for him not feel guilty for all the suffering they have caused by making this cretin President. Love and hugs, Judy I did NOT vote for Bush. Still, I feel some guilt about the fact that my country is acting so badly. I do plan to participate in an anti-war rally tomorrow, in the hope that in some small way my protest will make a difference. I have to take some public stand against the war. I don't think Bush cares what the people want, but sometimes you have to do something for your own sanity. There are some dedicated folks who rally every single Friday evening. The father of Nicholas Berg, who was killed so brutally, is among those who stand up against this war each week. I should do that when I'm not having to work on Fridays. This weekend marks the third year since Iraq was invaded. It's strange. Bush's popularity ratings are in the tank, but not so much because the U.S. invaded as that the U.S. isn't winning. I don't understand people in this country. |
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Post by skyloom on Mar 17, 2006 19:26:53 GMT -5
Now I am not into gloating over an execution and do remember that the families of the inmates do suffer, and they have done nothing wrong.....
Not only do the families of inmates suffer, but they get not one tenth of the sympathy and support that the families of murder victims get. You are quite right, Cyclone. They have done nothing wrong.
Some sick individuals would prefer that families of inmates turn their grief and anger towards their loved one. How on earth could any mother, sister or brother turn against their own flesh and blood? Thank heaven that's not how my family would ever act.
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Post by attitude on Mar 19, 2006 0:30:17 GMT -5
They probably are victims in that respect...but what right did they have to inflict their misery on another...what you are doing is moving responsibility away from the individual.....many people suffer from the factors that you mention and still refrain from violent crime I believe that those executed are victims. They are victims of poverty, racism, socio-economic disadvantages, and varying degrees of mental illness. I speak here of substance abuse in all its forms. For those who commit murder who are not burdened by these factors, there are myriad others: each based upon the uncontrolled primal human emotional spectrum. For the state to victimize them furthers the violence within society. Behind each victim there is a human being, whether it be the victim of a heinous murder or the victim of the state. |
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Post by attitude on Mar 19, 2006 0:32:01 GMT -5
Actually Judy the problem was the Americans did not have much of a choice.... I think all those who voted for GWB to be President must accept their part in the death of over 2,000 service personell since he took office. He is pushing as hard as he can for an invasion of Iran, he wants to start WWIII, do people who voted for him not feel guilty for all the suffering they have caused by making this cretin President. Love and hugs, Judy I did NOT vote for Bush. Still, I feel some guilt about the fact that my country is acting so badly. I do plan to participate in an anti-war rally tomorrow, in the hope that in some small way my protest will make a difference. I have to take some public stand against the war. I don't think Bush cares what the people want, but sometimes you have to do something for your own sanity. There are some dedicated folks who rally every single Friday evening. The father of Nicholas Berg, who was killed so brutally, is among those who stand up against this war each week. I should do that when I'm not having to work on Fridays. This weekend marks the third year since Iraq was invaded. It's strange. Bush's popularity ratings are in the tank, but not so much because the U.S. invaded as that the U.S. isn't winning. I don't understand people in this country. |
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Post by sclcookie on Mar 19, 2006 1:39:13 GMT -5
Bush has lost his ratings.
Yes, we have a choice. We need to VOTE! There are many people here who do not vote because they believe their vote doesn't count. That's what we need to change. Get people to go vote and make a difference, esp. the poor, non-white, and many others etc.......
hugggz,
Suzanne
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Post by judywaits4u on Mar 19, 2006 5:25:52 GMT -5
Actually Judy the problem was the Americans did not have much of a choice.... I did NOT vote for Bush. Still, I feel some guilt about the fact that my country is acting so badly. I do plan to participate in an anti-war rally tomorrow, in the hope that in some small way my protest will make a difference. I have to take some public stand against the war. I don't think Bush cares what the people want, but sometimes you have to do something for your own sanity. There are some dedicated folks who rally every single Friday evening. The father of Nicholas Berg, who was killed so brutally, is among those who stand up against this war each week. I should do that when I'm not having to work on Fridays. This weekend marks the third year since Iraq was invaded. It's strange. Bush's popularity ratings are in the tank, but not so much because the U.S. invaded as that the U.S. isn't winning. I don't understand people in this country. Americans certainly did have a choice and JFK would have made a much better President than Bush. Love and hugs, Judy |
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Post by skyloom on Mar 19, 2006 19:51:16 GMT -5
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Post by skyloom on Mar 19, 2006 20:00:28 GMT -5
They probably are victims in that respect...but what right did they have to inflict their misery on another...what you are doing is moving responsibility away from the individual.....many people suffer from the factors that you mention and still refrain from violent crime Nope! I agree with Janet. Those who are executed are victims of poverty, racism, socio-economic disadvantages, mental illnesses, and I'd add also a terribly compromised "justice" system. The equation is not that most people who are disadvantaged in some way do not commit crimes. It is properly stated that most people who do commit crimes are disadvantaged in some way. |
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Post by attitude on Mar 20, 2006 22:45:19 GMT -5
If you are into voting...I will tell you about my nation 1) Voting is compulsory...ie you get fined if you don't vote 2) We have less restrictions on convicted felons voting (ie ones out of prison) 3) We use a preferential voting system...ie when you vote rather then ticking the candidate you want you have to effectively rank them... I think the effect of these means Australia gets a more universal voice in who governs them It means politicians need to divise policies for all rather then those who are more likely then others to get off there bum and vote Bush has lost his ratings. Yes, we have a choice. We need to VOTE! There are many people here who do not vote because they believe their vote doesn't count. That's what we need to change. Get people to go vote and make a difference, esp. the poor, non-white, and many others etc....... hugggz, Suzanne |
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