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Post by briseis on Jun 23, 2008 10:49:37 GMT -5
I find it to be commonplace for Pros to accuse Antis of not caring for the families of the victims. What they base that theory on, I don't know. Just because I don't wish anyone dead, doesn't mean I care any less about the victims and their families than Pros do. I am all for Life Imprisonment.
However, in my experience I have never seen Pros to be concerned with the families of the convicts? Who are, just as the families of the victims did, facing and undergoing the loss of a much loved family member. The killing of their son/daughter/wife/husband/father/mother etc. It is just as painful for them, the loss is just as unbearable.
While I quite understand why Pros do not care for the convicts, why is it that from what I have seen, Pros do not care for their families? Why is it that in many cases, the families are treated with the same contempt as the convicts? Are they too not victims of the crime committed?
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Post by justme on Jun 23, 2008 11:53:47 GMT -5
With all due respect, I believe you are making way too broad of a statement.
I do think that most anti's care about the victims and their families.
To say that Pros are never concerned with the families of the convicts, there is no way you have any evidence to support that conclusion. What you read on a message board is not the reflection of the population as a whole. Now the families of the murderers are not discussed in the media nearly as much as the victim, the murderer or the victim's family. I am sure there are a lot of reasons for that....quite possibly in several instances because the murderer's family prefers it that way.
But I think you are making way too large of a generalization here...just like the pros do when they state anti's do not care about the victims. Sure there are some pro's who feel eactly like you say, while there are some anti's who feel no remorse for victim or the victim families ( I can show you a recent post or two on this website confirming just that). But I think both are rare exceptions to the norm.
I view anti's as people who value life over anything else. As a pro, I have my struggles with the death penalty, but in the end a few key factors tilt the scales just enough for me to favor it. But I certainly feel for the innocent family members of the murderer as well.
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Post by andie on Jun 23, 2008 19:11:31 GMT -5
As a pro, I think the situations are totally different. An innocent person getting murdered is sometimes a random unpredictable attack that the victim's family could never be prepared for or would think that it could ever happen to them.
Now a person convicted of a crime is totally different... the family is aware of the act their son/daughter/brother/sister etc comitted and is very aware of the punishments that could be given whether it be the death penalty or not. It still might be hard on that family but in my opinion they are only victims of their family member's stupidity to commit such an act.
The person who murders puts themselves and their family members in that position.
If one of my family members were to murder someone or even get convicted for something such as drugs lets just say they wouldn't be family anymore. But then I guess not everyone see's it that way
but again the murder victim's family is given more of a horrible shock and suprise then a convicts family....
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Post by happyhaddock on Jun 23, 2008 19:24:46 GMT -5
... Now a person convicted of a crime is totally different... the family is aware of the act their son/daughter/brother/sister etc comitted and is very aware of the punishments that could be given whether it be the death penalty or not. ... Say what? Ted Bundy's family knew? The BTK killer's family knew? The Green River Killer's family knew? Good luck trying to prove that. |
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Post by andie on Jun 23, 2008 20:42:35 GMT -5
Karla Homolka's family knew.... so are you saying that the families of these monsters had no idea there son's where murderers or they just didn't know they may or may not get the dp. ... Now a person convicted of a crime is totally different... the family is aware of the act their son/daughter/brother/sister etc comitted and is very aware of the punishments that could be given whether it be the death penalty or not. ... Say what? Ted Bundy's family knew? The BTK killer's family knew? The Green River Killer's family knew? Good luck trying to prove that. |
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Post by happyhaddock on Jun 24, 2008 0:03:26 GMT -5
Say what? Ted Bundy's family knew? The BTK killer's family knew? The Green River Killer's family knew? Good luck trying to prove that. Karla Homolka's family knew.... so are you saying that the families of these monsters had no idea there son's where murderers or they just didn't know they may or may not get the dp. Homolka's family knew what? That she'd killed her own sister? When did they know and how? |
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Post by briseis on Jun 24, 2008 5:03:20 GMT -5
With all due respect, I believe you are making way too broad of a statement. I do think that most anti's care about the victims and their families. To say that Pros are never concerned with the families of the convicts, there is no way you have any evidence to support that conclusion. What you read on a message board is not the reflection of the population as a whole. Now the families of the murderers are not discussed in the media nearly as much as the victim, the murderer or the victim's family. I am sure there are a lot of reasons for that....quite possibly in several instances because the murderer's family prefers it that way. But I think you are making way too large of a generalization here...just like the pros do when they state anti's do not care about the victims. Sure there are some pro's who feel eactly like you say, while there are some anti's who feel no remorse for victim or the victim families ( I can show you a recent post or two on this website confirming just that). But I think both are rare exceptions to the norm. I view anti's as people who value life over anything else. As a pro, I have my struggles with the death penalty, but in the end a few key factors tilt the scales just enough for me to favor it. But I certainly feel for the innocent family members of the murderer as well. In my experience of talking with hundreds of Pros, as stated in the original post, they do not care. In fact, I have witnessed Pros blaming them as though they had a part in it, and below Andie insists that they knew that their loved one was a murderer, when I beg to differ. Some family members do not know, or choose not to know ... I wrote this post because not once have I ever seen a Pro show any concern for the families of the convicts, and in fact insult them for supporting their family member when that is the most natural thing they could do. I was not making any generalisation. You are the first to state that you care at all. But your concern is clearly limited as you support the Death Penalty. I still admire your showing respect to them, as I feel they deserve it just as much as the victims' families do. Andie, Just because the convict's family members were aware of the forthcoming execution, that the death wasn't a 'surprise' to them, doesn't make it any less painful, or any different in the end. I have lost a family member in a car crash (his fault - he was speeding) and another after a 4 year battle with terminal cancer. Do you think that I found the second death easier simply because it wasn't a 'surprise' or because that person didn't play a role in their own death? Nonsense. It was just as painful. Just as unbearable. The convicts' families suffer just as much in the end. |
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Post by andie on Jun 24, 2008 12:16:09 GMT -5
I meant that they knew she was in prison which means they knew she had an involvment with taking innocent lives....she was never charged for her sisters death. Say what? Ted Bundy's family knew? The BTK killer's family knew? The Green River Killer's family knew? Good luck trying to prove that. Karla Homolka's family knew.... so are you saying that the families of these monsters had no idea there son's where murderers or they just didn't know they may or may not get the dp. Homolka's family knew what? That she'd killed her own sister? When did they know and how? |
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Post by andie on Jun 24, 2008 12:37:30 GMT -5
Ok I'm confused, how do family members not know that one of their family members killed someone if they talk to them on dr or support them or feel the loss? someone dying from a terminal illness is still very painful and sad because not only is it hard to watch someone you care about going through this pain that they don't deserve. but then again I see things differently when it comes to those on dr.....they choose their own path in life and now must live with the consequences....the death penalty doesn't put the family through pain its the convict who puts his or her family through pain by comitting murder and then recieving the death sentence. But hey, at least with the death penalty there is always those appeal processes and dates being switched which gives there family some hope.....I wonder how many times the victim appealed for their lives before the murderer took it from them? I wonder how much hope that victim's family still has when they see police officers coming to their door? And btw, I don't think that the family of the convict is just as guilty as their family member, I think that they are just unfortunate to have a family member do something horrible like that and have to live with the burden of what there family member did. I don't know how some families can still love someone who took another life? When that life could have also been a family meber as well. With all due respect, I believe you are making way too broad of a statement. I do think that most anti's care about the victims and their families. To say that Pros are never concerned with the families of the convicts, there is no way you have any evidence to support that conclusion. What you read on a message board is not the reflection of the population as a whole. Now the families of the murderers are not discussed in the media nearly as much as the victim, the murderer or the victim's family. I am sure there are a lot of reasons for that....quite possibly in several instances because the murderer's family prefers it that way. But I think you are making way too large of a generalization here...just like the pros do when they state anti's do not care about the victims. Sure there are some pro's who feel eactly like you say, while there are some anti's who feel no remorse for victim or the victim families ( I can show you a recent post or two on this website confirming just that). But I think both are rare exceptions to the norm. I view anti's as people who value life over anything else. As a pro, I have my struggles with the death penalty, but in the end a few key factors tilt the scales just enough for me to favor it. But I certainly feel for the innocent family members of the murderer as well. In my experience of talking with hundreds of Pros, as stated in the original post, they do not care. In fact, I have witnessed Pros blaming them as though they had a part in it, and below Andie insists that they knew that their loved one was a murderer, when I beg to differ. Some family members do not know, or choose not to know ... I wrote this post because not once have I ever seen a Pro show any concern for the families of the convicts, and in fact insult them for supporting their family member when that is the most natural thing they could do. I was not making any generalisation. You are the first to state that you care at all. But your concern is clearly limited as you support the Death Penalty. I still admire your showing respect to them, as I feel they deserve it just as much as the victims' families do. Andie, Just because the convict's family members were aware of the forthcoming execution, that the death wasn't a 'surprise' to them, doesn't make it any less painful, or any different in the end. I have lost a family member in a car crash (his fault - he was speeding) and another after a 4 year battle with terminal cancer. Do you think that I found the second death easier simply because it wasn't a 'surprise' or because that person didn't play a role in their own death? Nonsense. It was just as painful. Just as unbearable. The convicts' families suffer just as much in the end. |
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Post by briseis on Jun 24, 2008 13:59:34 GMT -5
Andie,
Obviously the family members know that their loved one is charged and convicted of murder. But that doesn't necessarily mean that their loved one actually committed the murder. Many inmates plead 'innocent' and maintain that they are innocent, and their family members believe them, whether it be true or not.
And they are not "just unfortunate". It must be a devastating time for them, waiting for years for their loved one to be put to death. DEVASTATING. Just as devastating as it is for the victims' families. Regardless of who caused the devastation, it doesn't make it any less painful for them. My heart bleeds for these shadowed victims.
Why? Because I have a son, and my love for him is unconditional. I am his mother, and that's the most powerful love a person can feel for another. Should he commit murder, I will always love him, and always stand by him through it all. I am raising him to be a good and decent person, hopefully as incapable of murder as I am, but regardless, I will always love him. Perhaps you are not a parent and would not understand that kind of love and forgiveness.
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Post by andie on Jun 26, 2008 11:32:28 GMT -5
well maybe as a pro I am "cold hearted" so I don't think I could love my kid for killing someone when they have taken away someone elses child. But I don't have a kid so I don't have that whole unconditional love thing down, but I do have a twin sister who I am very close to and love very much but if she was to do something awful like murder someone then she would not be my sister anymore. But not everyone feels this way, and there are many ppl out there pro and anti with family members in prison or on dr who support or cope with what there family member has done. I guess I could just never understand.... Andie, Obviously the family members know that their loved one is charged and convicted of murder. But that doesn't necessarily mean that their loved one actually committed the murder. Many inmates plead 'innocent' and maintain that they are innocent, and their family members believe them, whether it be true or not. And they are not "just unfortunate". It must be a devastating time for them, waiting for years for their loved one to be put to death. DEVASTATING. Just as devastating as it is for the victims' families. Regardless of who caused the devastation, it doesn't make it any less painful for them. My heart bleeds for these shadowed victims. Why? Because I have a son, and my love for him is unconditional. I am his mother, and that's the most powerful love a person can feel for another. Should he commit murder, I will always love him, and always stand by him through it all. I am raising him to be a good and decent person, hopefully as incapable of murder as I am, but regardless, I will always love him. Perhaps you are not a parent and would not understand that kind of love and forgiveness. |
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Post by pumpkinpie on Jun 27, 2008 21:07:42 GMT -5
I find it to be commonplace for Pros to accuse Antis of not caring for the families of the victims. What they base that theory on, I don't know. Just because I don't wish anyone dead, doesn't mean I care any less about the victims and their families than Pros do. I am all for Life Imprisonment. However, in my experience I have never seen Pros to be concerned with the families of the convicts? Who are, just as the families of the victims did, facing and undergoing the loss of a much loved family member. The killing of their son/daughter/wife/husband/father/mother etc. It is just as painful for them, the loss is just as unbearable. While I quite understand why Pros do not care for the convicts, why is it that from what I have seen, Pros do not care for their families? Why is it that in many cases, the families are treated with the same contempt as the convicts? Are they too not victims of the crime committed? Unlike pros, we care about ALL involved. From the victims, to the victims family, to the inmate's family, right down to the well being and right to life of the inmates themselves. |
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Post by pumpkinpie on Jun 27, 2008 21:24:50 GMT -5
If one of my family members were to murder someone or even get convicted for something such as drugs lets just say they wouldn't be family anymore. Seriously? Wow. I believe if you treat somebody bad, your going to get yours someday. If you make huge mistakes, there are and should be consequences. I think people should own up to their mistakes, and live with the consequences. In other words, some people belong in prison! I wouldn't be praising a family member if they got busted for drugs, or did something even worse, and got caught. But I wouldn't dis-own a loved one if he or she messed up their own life. If I love someone, and someone is good to me, then what good would it do to disown them because of their mistakes? Especially if that person is already suffering. Unfortunately, many inmates families do think like you Andie. Which is why many get no visitors or phone calls and live in complete isolation, because their family has dis-owned them, or never been there for them in the first place. |
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Post by briseis on Jun 28, 2008 7:13:02 GMT -5
Andie, Perhaps you will understand if and when you are a parent. But I would never disown ANY family member, and in fact have already proven that to one particular family member. And in the fact that I write to an inmate on DR, who is cut off from his family and friends. Thankfully, he has me and the other penpals he writes to, which is what makes our writing to inmates so important to them.
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Post by smokey1 on Jun 28, 2008 10:07:57 GMT -5
With all due respect, I believe you are making way too broad of a statement. I do think that most anti's care about the victims and their families. To say that Pros are never concerned with the families of the convicts, there is no way you have any evidence to support that conclusion. What you read on a message board is not the reflection of the population as a whole. Now the families of the murderers are not discussed in the media nearly as much as the victim, the murderer or the victim's family. I am sure there are a lot of reasons for that....quite possibly in several instances because the murderer's family prefers it that way. But I think you are making way too large of a generalization here...just like the pros do when they state anti's do not care about the victims. Sure there are some pro's who feel eactly like you say, while there are some anti's who feel no remorse for victim or the victim families ( I can show you a recent post or two on this website confirming just that). But I think both are rare exceptions to the norm. I view anti's as people who value life over anything else. As a pro, I have my struggles with the death penalty, but in the end a few key factors tilt the scales just enough for me to favor it. But I certainly feel for the innocent family members of the murderer as well. the reason the mvf gets all the press is cause for most of the reports they are going to get shock media reports with i hope he dies & he should be killed now etc etc...jmo  |
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