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Post by CCADP on May 16, 2005 22:06:02 GMT -5
This page (unconnected to the CCADP) has been sent to us by someone else who has made this page; for posting.
http://www.
Interesting reading!
(UNFORTUNATELY THE PERSON ASKED FOR THE LINK TO BE REMOVED due to intimidation and threats by JFA members or board posters who apparentely do not like the public to be able to read what their members have to say in a public forum. )
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Post by CCADP on May 16, 2005 22:09:59 GMT -5
''favourites' that I just found on that page -
The condemned are already dead. They need to feel that way prior to disposal, unless, of course, they do the public a favor and do the right thing
Or do it yourself Lethal Injection kits
Or cyanide pills. One for the murderer, and one for his scumpal wife.
IF the sister 'supports' this murdering bastard, they should take the liver out, while he is alive, no anastitic and set it on fire and then stomp on it and let the murderer's support group know how the other half lives... (this was said about a man that wanted to give his liver to his sick sister prior to his execution)
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Post by sally104 on May 17, 2005 5:08:19 GMT -5
Maybe you can ask them why it is that they ban those whose opinions differ? Only shows they can't back up their arguments. BAD public relations .... I dont know why they banned you. Perhaps you can email Charlene and ask.
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Post by tulla63 on May 17, 2005 5:44:42 GMT -5
Seems like I've developed a very sick type of humor over the years. I laughed so hard while drinking coffee, so now I have to clean up all the mess and I burned my thumb. BADLY!! Your fault!! Sounds like something Monty Python could have come up with. Love, Turid
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Post by tulla63 on May 17, 2005 5:46:41 GMT -5
Very good idea, Sally!! Because we don't really understand why. Would you mind posting her answer to this forum? Would be great! Love, Turid
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Post by CCADP on May 17, 2005 6:38:12 GMT -5
I was told that they didn't like the fact that some of the posts you read from their board here were cut and pasted above... I'm not sure I understand that - 1) its a public list; not a private one 2) these were not taken out of context. They read EXACTLY the same in the context they are in; which is essentially more of the same. 3) none of the rules for posting say that posts can not be copied. I'm not sure why they would be embarrrassed at this common stance amongst most of their members. I'd be more than happy to allow all posts from this board to be copied and pasted elsewhere - in fact I encourage it. The thoughtful and intelligent explanations and arguments by everyone here explaining their opposition to the death penalty would be good for anyone to hear! We are banned, I believe; because they don't like this thread on our message board. I guess they don't like to be presented the way they actually are. There has never been anything posted there by CCADP that was less than polite; and gives no one reason to ban us from anywhere. We've done this work since 1998; and until 3 weeks ago or so when this board was opened; never visited their site. This work can be done quite well without exposure to their hatred and vitriol Regardless; we will visit occasionally regardless of the ban just to continue to make available to our visitors here further examples of their argument in support of the DP. Again; JFA or anyone else is welcome to copy and paste anything from this message board or website and post it in a thread on their message board. In fact I encourage it - their readers could benefit from hearing some reasonable discussion.
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Post by tulla63 on May 17, 2005 8:17:55 GMT -5
"Its the will of the people, "polls indicate", "popular support is what drives and should drive the law of the land"She does not mention it, but it sounds like Dianne Clements is talking about democracy here - particularly when she repeatedly refers to what's "popular", and the "the will of the people". Like democracy is ONLY about what the majority wants?!? If that were true, we would have no individual rights at all. Democracy is as much about individual rights as it is about the majority's rights. That is one of the reasons why the death penalty has no place in a democracy. In fact: A society without individual rights is no democracy at all. The "argument" saying that once a person kills another, he has no rights left, is a false one. That is "wishful thinking" on her part, because that is in fact not true. Criminals lose some rights the minute they become criminals, and that's how it's got to be, but criminals do not lose their basic rights as individuals - and they do not lose their right to be protected by the law although they have broken the law. Dianne Clements might not agree, but that isn't going to help her and whatever her opinons might be on the matter isn't interesting. The moment a society tosses out all the individual rights by killing one of their citizens, it is no longer - per definition - a democracy. Majority-dicatorship whould be a better definition. I know exactly what they would answer: Firstly: I would get the usual "when they kill, they lose their own right to live", and secondly: "a murderer should have no rights", and - well - you know the drill....... I guess these people need to understand that they're not even in favor of democracy. There would be no democracy unless the individual also had it's rights within the system. I cannot - not for the life of me - understand why "THE RIGHT TO LIFE" would be different from other rights. Which other "rights" is there for an individual to protect if he can't protect this one from the Majority- dictatorship? This woman is just unbelievable!! Love, Turid
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Post by beenthere on May 19, 2005 19:28:57 GMT -5
You people are sick and vicious! Only God can judge others and he will judge swiftly those who condemn especially with no understanding of the truth. Did you people just skip the New Testament? "Judge not lest ye be judged." Didn't Jesus forgive sinners? In the Old Testament people that did almost anything were subject to death, Jesus came to earth to bear all of our sins. Not just the self righteous. You have no idea of the punishment that is inflicted on death row families whose only sin is to love unconditionally. Their pain is forever, just as the victim's families. This does not minimize the crime but we are all human and some make dreadful mistakes in some bizarre moment of weakness. Remember "Blessed are the merciful." Don't you ever think this could happen to you, but for the Grace of God? Don't be so smug in your judgment because any person can make a mistake, even a deadly one, that is totally out of character. You should ask for God's help with your anger and learn to help all victims on both sides of the issue.
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Post by sally104 on May 19, 2005 19:47:49 GMT -5
You people are sick and vicious! Only God can judge others and he will judge swiftly those who condemn especially with no understanding of the truth. Did you people just skip the New Testament? "Judge not lest ye be judged." Didn't Jesus forgive sinners? In the Old Testament people that did almost anything were subject to death, Jesus came to earth to bear all of our sins. Not just the self righteous. You have no idea of the punishment that is inflicted on death row families whose only sin is to love unconditionally. Their pain is forever, just as the victim's families. This does not minimize the crime but we are all human and some make dreadful mistakes in some bizarre moment of weakness. Remember "Blessed are the merciful." Don't you ever think this could happen to you, but for the Grace of God? Don't be so smug in your judgment because any person can make a mistake, even a deadly one, that is totally out of character. You should ask for God's help with your anger and learn to help all victims on both sides of the issue. None of Jesus' teaching negates the right of a government to inflict capital punishment on those who take a victims right. Remember Genesis 9:6 which says Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image. Murder, by definition is the deliberate taking of someones life, it by definition is not an accident. It is not a mistake, and because of this they deserve to be punished. I also know that peoples lives are more important then anything else. This is something that a convicted murderer forgets, when he picks up a gun and points it at someone and demands that they hand over their money, this is what a rapist forgets when he murders his victim becuase he does not want a witness around who can identify him, this is what Scott Peterson forgot when he murdered his wife, because he wanted his freedom.
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jj
New Arrival
Posts: 5
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Post by jj on May 19, 2005 20:29:42 GMT -5
No one has a problem with punishment. No one here will advocate that anyone who breaks the law in any way should not accept the consequences.
what we DO say is the death penalty is NOT the answer.
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Post by beenthere on May 19, 2005 20:51:20 GMT -5
I am not saying that murderers should not be punished but there are other ways such as life without the possibility of parole. Believe me prison is not a country club especially here in Texas. By executing a murderer you create a whole new set of victims, innocent family members that love that person in spite of their crimes. Do you honestly believe you could turn your back on your father or brother if he committed a horrendous crime? What you hear in the media is not the gospel. Have you ever been to a trial in Texas? You don't hear about the witness statements that aren't included, the evidence that is misrepresented, the outright lies that are told supposedly in the interest of justice. Does it make any of us any safer if they convict an innocent person and the real perpetrator is still on the street? Too many people have been exonerated of their supposed crimes. Have you not heard of Ernest Willis? If the State of Texas had its way he would have been dead, but the truth finally came out and he was released last year. The new prosecutor in his county saw the mistakes that had been made and had the guts to stop an innocent man from being executed. Do you know you can pay more for a car than a defense attorney is given to represent his client? I'll stop for now. Don't think I don't think criminals should not be punished; they should be, but this goes beyond punishment this is just morally wrong. '
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Post by justice on May 20, 2005 12:42:54 GMT -5
Quite the odd idea.An entire 6 page thread dedicated to something that is supposedly distasteful here.Does your computer have a strange new virus which automatically jets you to this other board and forces you to read it?Personally I wonder of these people who you so freely quote here,ever think if they came here and posted their own remarks they would be banned?LOL they have no need to join here just post on the other board and let you post it here for them.....Silly to say the least,but this does seem the way it works.
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Post by CCADP on May 20, 2005 13:22:30 GMT -5
it might seem that way; unless you visit their thread and see their years long history of bashing CCADP and our work; and bashing the motivations of those people kind enough to communicate with persons sentenced to death. Reading the articles posted within; you'll see that prisoner advocates are right to be concerned with the behaviour of JFA - quite apart from its message board - our more important concern is the behavior of its spokespeople towards suffering innocent family members - even at the MOMENT their loved one is executed.
This thread exists so media, victims, and anyone else who is under the impression that JFA speaks for victims or is a victims support group; can see for themselves how little actual victim support takes place; and that they are in fact a lobbying group that uses the pain of victims to justify their praise for Texas prosecutors and the death penalty system.
For family members of those on death row; this is a very important issue.
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Post by lostlove84 on May 20, 2005 17:14:14 GMT -5
I would think it a very important issue for the victims of those on DR, wouldnt you? They have as much right to want them to be where they are for what they did. I am sorry, but reading some of the things on this board has shown me many things about antis and this page itself. What do you think about one of your board members that goes on to the pro board and uses a picture of the person that killed my father and then typed the words to the song that he was quoted saying when he killed my father, do you see this as respect or understanding? This person has been band from the board for her repeted viscous attackes on MVS. If this is how you would like your board member to act on that board and traeat MVS then I dont see how there will ever be any understand between pros and antis.
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Post by CCADP on May 20, 2005 17:30:03 GMT -5
What would I think of that kind of behavior? What kind of a QUESTION is that? Of course thats terrible; I don't know who you mean; and surely you know that anyone in the world can post here; and become a message 'board member'. Just like anyone can post there (at least until they are banned for being against the DP). I have been banned from that site for having done nothing; as have several others who cannot figure out why. ' OF COURSE that is terrible behavior - no one would ever be permittted to do that here; and I am not sure why someone would. Its just like people coming here two minutes after the execution of the little girls' dad Richard Cartwright gleefully talking about people getting juiced on a message board they know his family reads. Both nasty. Both unacceptable. It seems that board brings out the worst in people on both sides of the issue. I have seen things people say there; and then they come here and are so much more measured and sensible and at least extend their argument without SO much anger and hate. Its like I said about Joseph Phillips on that board - if u look at his first posts; they make sense tho I disagree - he had an argument to extend; and then it degenerated into one line attacks and one upmanship. Really brings out the worst in people. Thats why we are so careful to be respectful of each other in this forum. Lost; where are the posts in this forum by 'anti's' that you found so offensive?
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