|
Post by judywaits4u on Jan 8, 2006 11:43:07 GMT -5
Judy, you wrote that they get into a sexual frenzy. That is about as absurd as if I claimed that you get sexually aroused from reading what a killer does to his victim. Stop it already. You can ask many people here what they are like on that scum site and they will tell you the same thing.
|
|
|
Post by erick on Jan 8, 2006 13:50:44 GMT -5
Judy, you wrote that they get into a sexual frenzy. That is about as absurd as if I claimed that you get sexually aroused from reading what a killer does to his victim. Stop it already. You can ask many people here what they are like on that scum site and they will tell you the same thing. I thought that one of the corner stones of anti philosophy was that 2 wrongs do not make a right and that an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Just because you were insulted on the pro site does not mean that you should be insulting here, IMO.
|
|
sdl
New Arrival
Posts: 0
|
Post by sdl on Jan 8, 2006 14:22:50 GMT -5
Well, you know what George W. Bush!tler said about Human Rights... "Texas didn't sign the Vienna Convention..why should we obey it?" that is sick america is above everyone right? you know, i was truly thinking about this one day, why is it america has so much supposed terrorism and other countries hating us or lost respect for us? The government would have you to believe that it is because we are "the greatest place in the world" "a free place" "a 'beacon of light' to the world" and therefore they hate us. NO, they hate us because of things we have done and things we do.... I always hear people like texans say "you don't like it, get out" well know what? i would LOVE to get out...honestly, i think since my early teens i wanted out of america...never quite knew why, it just felt right. in 1999 i came close to achieving that. I almost got a chance to go to england permenantly. but i backed out (valid reasons). But now that i think about it, i truly am disgusted to be a part of this country, not even just because of the DP, that's just the tip of the iceburg...i see sooo much corruption around and i just can't associate myself with a country who does what we do... now think about it..how many times do you hear that people hate Australia, or scotland, or the netherlands? I mean how many "terrorists" run around invading these places? why is it that america is hated so much? there are many reasons. And instead of working towards peace, america has to have their big fat ego and think that the terrorism must be because we are so much "better than everyone" *sigh* yeah, sure, people will likely flame me calling me "un-patriotic" i cannot be patriotic if i do not agree with our country's politics, proceedures, scare tactics, corruption, etc As long as Bush is on office, I am ashamed to call myself an American. He makes ashamed to be one...
|
|
|
Post by anna on Jan 8, 2006 14:42:26 GMT -5
Judy, you wrote that they get into a sexual frenzy. That is about as absurd as if I claimed that you get sexually aroused from reading what a killer does to his victim. Stop it already. You can ask many people here what they are like on that scum site and they will tell you the same thing. Gosh Judy, A lot of wild accusations and insinuations fly back and forth between the pro site and here. You'll find a minority everywhere that isn't healthy in some of their attitudes. I think, Judy, we two both have a lot of fantasy, but please at least try to seperate the fact from the fiction. I try to do this. Your former poster anti-deathpenalty67-anje-or whatever gave antis some wacky stereotypes that most of you don't want to be applied to you. Plenty of hugs and love! ( if you'll accept that from a scum-site poster gal ) Anna
|
|
|
Post by anna on Jan 8, 2006 18:55:29 GMT -5
It is not hatred that motivates me to decide to be a pro dp supporter, or revenge is neither a motive. The reason why I support the deathpenalty is that I see it as as the just punishment for deliberately taking a human life. You see you cannot bring back a murder victim from the dead. You all know this of course, but it seems not that important. You complain that the Dp in the USA is arbitrarily applied, but please stop and ask what the hell is murder. You complain that the state is violating the human rights of the murderer by executing him when all what is happening is that he is just paying the price for his evil actions. You demand the right of a fair trial for a murderer, but you forget that the murderer denied his victim all these rights plus more. You forget that those rights are there becuase yes people are wrongly accused, it is the standard of this state that people are given the right to speak in their defence and demand that the prosecution prove their case. Yet the victim generally had no right to beg for mercy for his or her life. Gosh Sally, I do hear the cries of the MVSs. Life is so unfair and cruel at times. There's no way out of being an MVS. I would however make a lousy "retributionist pro" i know-if that was my only reasoning. I'm compelled to support the DP in the most and heinous cases primarily because i'm overwhelmed with the common sense aspect of the deterrent argument of the DP and some statistical evidence too. Revenge is wrong and i feel also that forgiveness is wrong in the most horrific cases. If i didn't believe that the DP was a greater deterrent than LWOP i'd probably be undecided or only weakly pro. The anti's "brutalisation argument" and the danger of big government and how it could misuse the DP for a totaliarian agenda as Joe Sobran's warn us of in this article www.sobran.com/columns/1999-2001/000926.shtml makes me reflective. The plea bargain value of the DP and the incapacation argument on the other hand-easy to demonstrate-might keep me on the edge of the pro position, without the deterrent argument. IF only an execution could heal the MVSs' suffering i could support the DP with this retributionist thinking...Love you Sally, but we think differently!
|
|
|
Post by bexwhite on Jan 13, 2006 14:05:33 GMT -5
it is proven that most ppl on d/r are either black,hispanic ect ect all of a different ethnic background and is also proven that you dont really get a fair trial if you have a bad/even financial back ground, you got to have alot of money to get a decent lawyer there.. and i am definitly anti-d/p its wrong and a legal form of murder, how the exicutioner get away with it i will never know, if the d/p is so great why arnt police officers/guards on death row as there ok to murder they carry guns and then ppl see this as a example and also do the same.. THE DEATH PENILTY IS WRONG.. LEGAL MURDER
|
|
|
Post by paleone on Jan 13, 2006 19:56:09 GMT -5
it is proven that most ppl on d/r are either black,hispanic ect ect all of a different ethnic background and is also proven that you dont really get a fair trial if you have a bad/even financial back ground, you got to have alot of money to get a decent lawyer there.. and i am definitly anti-d/p its wrong and a legal form of murder, how the exicutioner get away with it i will never know, if the d/p is so great why arnt police officers/guards on death row as there ok to murder they carry guns and then ppl see this as a example and also do the same.. THE DEATH PENILTY IS WRONG.. LEGAL MURDER um...i am not trying to argue with you since you are on the same side as i am..but the racial information you provided is false...i am all about the abolishment of the death penalty...but the race card is not needed to be pulled..YES there is a problem in the trial phase with juries at times...but here is the actual facts: CURRENT U.S. DEATH ROW POPULATION BY RACE: BLACK: 1,419 41.7% HISPANIC: 352 10.4% WHITE: 1,532 45.5% OTHER: 80 2.3% as for the representation information, that is correct, unless someone can dish out a half million on a "good" lawyer, they will have someone who does a half assed job...
|
|
|
Post by bexwhite on Jan 15, 2006 6:08:51 GMT -5
i agree with SLCOOKIE it isnt a life for a life these days.. they may be murders they may not be some of us dont care we still believe that just cos they have done wrong doesnt mean LEGAL murder should be done.. there are thousands of inmates on death row that are not guilty. all them that are going to get eletrocution,lehal injection,gassed for somthing they didnt do. so please actually read somthing before you judge.. why not write to a D/R inmate there always happy to recieve letters and they can tell you somthing of there you never know you might become anti-dp
|
|
|
Post by judywaits4u on Jan 15, 2006 7:40:57 GMT -5
Dear Paleone, It is not until you compare those figures you gave and compare them to the percentages of each race in the community that the real prejudice shows up.
You might get some information from knowing that 80% of victims in CP cases are White but it does not tell the whole story until you look at the fact that less than 50% of murder victims are white.
Love and hugs, Judy
|
|
|
Post by skyloom on Jan 15, 2006 8:18:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by paleone on Jan 15, 2006 22:40:04 GMT -5
the responses to me weren't in reference to what i was even quoting, i gave the number of inmates on death row by their race...i hear so many people say stuff like "oh well he's there because he's black" and i am like "ok then why are the 1500 whites there? yes, in some of the southern states where the black man had all white juries, of course some prejudice came, i don't question that...but the population of death row is pretty even..the highest number on death row is white..even if you add up blacks and hispanics you only are 200 people higher than the whites, so if you really want to think about it, it's practically split evenly....
i think that the idea that there are more poor people who couldn't afford a lawyer is more of an argument than the race card..because i know of 5 people just that i know that are on death row, not black, and had poor representation because they could not afford good representation...that goes for all races...anyone given a court appointed lawyer is practically screwed
|
|
|
Post by sclcookie on Jan 15, 2006 23:38:58 GMT -5
i agree with SLCOOKIE it isnt a life for a life these days.. they may be murders they may not be some of us dont care we still believe that just cos they have done wrong doesnt mean LEGAL murder should be done.. there are thousands of inmates on death row that are not guilty. all them that are going to get eletrocution,lehal injection,gassed for somthing they didnt do. so please actually read somthing before you judge.. why not write to a D/R inmate there always happy to recieve letters and they can tell you somthing of there you never know you might become anti-dp hmmmm, I doubt the number of innocent on DR is in the thousands (I'm assuming we are talking about the US). If I was going to guess a number, I'd say closer to 200 going by the 8-13 % stats of innocent in prison.
|
|
|
Post by judywaits4u on Jan 16, 2006 2:18:19 GMT -5
the responses to me weren't in reference to what i was even quoting, i gave the number of inmates on death row by their race...i hear so many people say stuff like "oh well he's there because he's black" and i am like "ok then why are the 1500 whites there? yes, in some of the southern states where the black man had all white juries, of course some prejudice came, i don't question that...but the population of death row is pretty even..the highest number on death row is white..even if you add up blacks and hispanics you only are 200 people higher than the whites, so if you really want to think about it, it's practically split evenly.... i think that the idea that there are more poor people who couldn't afford a lawyer is more of an argument than the race card..because i know of 5 people just that i know that are on death row, not black, and had poor representation because they could not afford good representation...that goes for all races...anyone given a court appointed lawyer is practically screwed Dear Paleone, The problem is that your statistics are not accurate as a representation of the facts about DR. Though you are looking at numbers, you are not looking at the figures compared to the percentage of each group in the American society. In two hundred years the USA has only executed twenty-seven white people for murdering soley black people, you cannot fail to see a problem there. Less than 50% of people who are murdered are white, yet over 80% of the victims in capital murder trials are white. If there was no racial bios, then DR would contain about 75% white people not the 50% you state. There are very strong statistics that prove that there is a racial bios when it comes to capital murder, death row and executions. Do not be fooled by the pro con that because 50% of people on death row are white, there is no racial bios because there most certainly is. Love and hugs, Judy
|
|
|
Post by judywaits4u on Jan 16, 2006 2:19:39 GMT -5
You can ask many people here what they are like on that scum site and they will tell you the same thing. I thought that one of the corner stones of anti philosophy was that 2 wrongs do not make a right and that an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Just because you were insulted on the pro site does not mean that you should be insulting here, IMO. It is never a wrong to tell the truth.
|
|
|
Post by paleone on Jan 16, 2006 2:36:59 GMT -5
my figures come from an anti website...
deathpenaltyinfo.org
and my response was to the number of people ON death row...
and on that site it does say a high ratio of white victims...but wouldn't it be the same either way...it says that 12 white people executed were executed with a black victim in their case...and 208 were black with white victim...ok...the thing is though, obviously well over 12 white people have been executed through the last 20 some years...so wouldn't that just prove that white people and black people are being executed regardless? who did the other several hundred white men who were executed kill? probably white right? so it's the same thing either way..out of over 1000 executions only 220 per the info on that site (might be a couple off if it's not up to date) were even interacial killings, the rest were people killing thier own race...
i have already said i do not deny that racism has been handed out in the death penalty, but i do not feel the race card should be pulled as a fight against it...there's too many facts equaling out for both sides...racist and not racist...like i said, if over 1000 people have been executed and only 220 (probably more now) were interacial then what's that say about the other 880?
as i stated in a previous post, the death penalty is more handed out to people who are just plain poor and are poorly represented than race...sadly many minorities cannot afford good representation, which is to show that economic status is more the problem than race.
my loved one is not black or hispanic and he is on death row in a completely STUPID case that he should never have been convicted of, but he couldn't afford representation, and so he got what he paid for...(obviously he didn't pay, therefore he got represented with SH*T)
|
|