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Post by skyloom on Nov 8, 2005 10:57:07 GMT -5
Judy, As far as the sadistic worst of worst go .... I may agree with you in the cases of less heinous killers that their motives are what they claim they are. By what bizarre calculus do you decide which is the "worst of the worst?" Yes, I know that there are legal formulae, but these are so inconsistent from state to state and in their particulars... i.e. a sadist like Charles Manson gets a life sentence while Mumia Abu-Jamal gets death.
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sdl
New Arrival
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Post by sdl on Nov 8, 2005 14:56:33 GMT -5
Manson and his followers did get death, but those sentences were overturned in 1972.
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Post by dio on Nov 8, 2005 16:22:49 GMT -5
TY SDL too oftn Loon speaks without thinking and needs intelligent life forms to remind her its medicine time....LMAO dio
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Post by judywaits4u on Nov 9, 2005 5:14:54 GMT -5
People always consider armed robber murderers as not being quite as bad as the rapists. I don't get that, both the victins of a rapist/killer and the armed robber/killer end up dead by definition. People we need to focus on the fact that someone died . . . The armed robber had just as much right to rob the victim as the rapist had to rape them....beisdes many armed robbery homicides aren't armed robberies gon bad. Many murders happen becuase 1) the robbers decide to eliminate witnesses and 2) they decide to play god and kill someone In most the CP states both crimes would be Capitol Murder Offences. Love and hugs, Judy
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Post by skyloom on Nov 9, 2005 14:39:41 GMT -5
I feel the MVSs are terribly neglected as far as receiving the psychological help they need. The governments in Germany and the US always put the predator before his victims-often entire families- as far as using psychological resources. This is a terrible injustice.
There are publicly funded and privately funded counseling and psychological services available to victim families in the U.S. In addition, some churches have organized groups to help these people. Matter of fact, there are three such groups within about a 20 miles radius of where I live, with branches in all three counties of the state.
I agree that victim families need support from not only their own friends and family, but also from those who have experienced the same kind of loss that they have, but these services do exist. Maybe the problem is that they are not available in more rural areas of the country... that I don't know.
I do know that it is not the job of the state to provide executions so these families can find closure. I have no problem, though, with states providing counseling for them. The question is whether the voters in the state want public funds spent for those services, or whether they want tax cuts instead. Many, many really important services are being cut these days, partly because we are fighting a war on terror, but also partly because the public does not want to pay for them. So, the problem really is with us... we get the government we demand.
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Post by judywaits4u on Nov 10, 2005 6:10:35 GMT -5
The link i posted on my Oct. 24 post on this thread with some comment again gives a politically incorrect explanation on the murder rates in Europe vs the murder rates in the US by restricting the studies to those of European murderers vs. murderers of European descent in the US. As far as beating up on Texas goes-something antis love to do. Well let's compare Texas with the non-DP state of Alaska. Note that i'm especially concerned with violent crime where the motive is a "sadistic, predator-like evil" www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm www.disastercenter.com/crime/akcrime.htmTEXAS-murder/rape per 100,000 ....ALASKA-murder/rape 1996.....7.7 / 43.8........................................7.4 / 65.6 1997.....6.8 / 41.2........................................8.9 / 66.2 1998.....6.8 / 40.0........................................6.7 / 68.6 1999.....6.1 / 38.0........................................8.4 / 83.5 2000.....5.9 / 37.7........................................4.3 / 70.3 SkyLoom and others have evaded the correlation between the frequency of the death penalty and serial killings which are predator crimes. So you want to compare the 27 murders and 497 rapes in Alaska in 2000 with the 1,238 murders and 7,856 Rapes in Texas in the same year?
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Post by janet on Nov 10, 2005 15:03:09 GMT -5
Isn't this a little like comparing apples and oranges?
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Post by moghirl on Nov 11, 2005 11:58:05 GMT -5
"The standard of living in non DP states is higher than in DP states. " unquote Miss Spearmint.
Hi, I find this an interesting statement, I wonder why that is ?
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sdl
New Arrival
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Post by sdl on Nov 11, 2005 14:12:14 GMT -5
Brains...something most people in, let's say, TEXAS, are lacking...
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Post by judywaits4u on Nov 11, 2005 15:51:41 GMT -5
I would like to know who said that Gang related murder in Texas is not death eligible? Do the republicans have a love of gangs or what?
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Post by skyloom on Nov 17, 2005 14:39:48 GMT -5
Sorry, but no one has ever proved any correlation between a lower murder rate in a particular state and the existence of capital punishment in that state. It just doesn't exist.
You might find some correlation for a given year or in a given state, but you simply cannot find it over a longer term in any state or any group of states.
I'm not trying to make you feel put upon, really! I've worked for the past six years for a demographer, though, and I do understand a little about how "figures don't lie but liars figure." You're not the liar here, but the people who put out those stats most certainly have a wee bit of an agenda.
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Post by judywaits4u on Nov 22, 2005 10:08:34 GMT -5
Nobody in the legal or political field believes that CP is a deterrant to murderers, even serial murderers.
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Post by skyloom on Nov 22, 2005 10:28:53 GMT -5
The biggest and most obvious problem with your data, Spearmint, is that it assumes only one "cause" for serial murders.
Factor analysis is problemmatic for many reasons, but one is that correlations can occur that are truly coincidental and totally irrelevant.
Another difficulty is that the population of serial killers is too small to be able to state much of anything about them that would be conclusive.
Finally, there's the case of James Allen Red Dog, who committed five murders before he was executed in Delaware, a capital punishment state, where he committed his final murder. By your data, Mr. Red Dog should have stayed out of Delaware... but he didn't.
That's just off the top of my head. Read "The Mismeasure of Man" for a good, understandable explanation of the cautions one should have when considering data of any sort.
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Post by johnny61 on Nov 22, 2005 22:20:51 GMT -5
How many times is this Spearmint nut going to post these supposedly damning statistics proving the truth of the death penalty being a deterrent?
For crying out loud....get over it num nuts.
NO DEATH PENALTY...EVER.
You got that?
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Post by skyloom on Nov 23, 2005 11:57:14 GMT -5
Why do we continue to try to argue whether the death penalty is a deterent or not? Does it really matter if it is or not? Does it matter whether it is a solution to murder?
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