|
Post by BentyProDP on May 13, 2005 12:36:11 GMT -5
Turid, MikeStatton, Joy, & CDDP...
After reading all of the posts in this thread, for some reason, none of you have explained or even hinted at what point a murderer admits his wrongdoing, tries to atone for his crime and seek forgiveness. Now I'm not talking about 10-15 years AFTER the murder as they have exhaused all thier appeals and are being strapped to the gurney, I'm talking about taking responsibility for thier actions?
If one of your children acted out against another child by slapping the other child in the face, what would you do to make the situation "right'? Would you disipline your child, give him/her a time out and make them apologize? Most likely you would....but would you wait 10-15 years to do it? Now slapping another kid in the face and murdering someone are two compleley different levels of bad behaviour, but the "justice" you would seek would be or should be the same? Isn't that the human nature you speak of?
Just curious.
Benty PRO-DP
|
|
|
Post by BentyProDP on May 13, 2005 12:44:09 GMT -5
Do I want Lonnie living next door to me??? Benty - WHERE do you get this stuff? I would have wanted Lonnie to do life in prison without parole, for murder, if it was up to me. Where; on the 1500 plus pages on this site and this message board; are we saying to throw open the doors and free all death row prisoners? There's just no logic in that Benty! Please argue with logic so that your points can better be considered - there are people who view this page that never post and are not committed to this issue; and saying stuff like that; sure won't convince them. Do you think the only options are kill them; or hire them a moving van? C'mon Benty! Ok, let's take the gloves off. I was trying to post with a degree of modicum, but let me ask the question in another way: IF someone murdered one of your loved ones would you want that murderer to 'enjoy', (the operative word) the following: THE MURDERER GETS TO: 1. Eat three meals a day (served to them) 2. Watch TV and enjoy the entertainment it provides? 3. Get visitors they can talk to. 4. Get mail they can respond to. 5. Get married, in some cases a few times 6. Get a college degree. 7. SATISFY THEMSELVES SEXUALLY 8. Get to say good-bye to thier loved ones 9. Get to order a last meal 10. Get to make a final statement.... THE DEAD VICTIM GETS TO: 1. Do NOTHING, EVER AGAIN....PERIOD Shall we debate each item to see where the Murderer gets to go on with life and the Victim is just dead...forever?
|
|
|
Post by truth1 on May 13, 2005 12:46:02 GMT -5
When Mr. Robert Earl Cook comes out of his grave, or his loved ones stop the pain in thier hearts, then I'd say he paid. Not because someone who has in her own words claimed to be mentally unbalanced falls in love with this lying con artist, or he spent a few years behind bars, should he be wiped clean and let out? Why is it that reading the post of death supporters, they catagorically dismiss the VICTIM as being DEAD and NOTHING WILL BRING THEM BACK...so what just forget they ever exsisted? Forget they have a family that still suffers over thier sensless loss? Look at the chair the vicitm normally sat in at Thanksgiving, Christmas, birthdays, other holidays and wonder why? The man took another persons life, the most precious gift we have, and he has to pay for it. Now here is some interesting reading on this man you so ardently support: #437783, 5 year sentence from San Jacinto County for 1 count of Burglary of a Habitation, 07/08/87 released on Parole, 12/21/90 returned from Parole with a new conviction; #571873 on a 10 year sentence from San Jacinto County for 1 count of Theft By Appropriation; 06/14/91 released on Parole; 08/24/92 returned from Parole with new conviction; #621739 on a 20 year sentence from Polk and San Jacinto County for 1 count of Burglary of a Habitation; 1 count of Burglary of a Vehicle and 1 count of Unauthorized Use of a Motor Vehicle; 11/28/95 released on parole. Summary of incident On 03/29/97 the subject and a co-defendant murdered 47-year old white male inside the Deer County Subdivision in Livingston, Texas. They took the victim into a wooded area where they beat him to death and robbed him So tell me, do you want Lonnie living next door to you? Strong argument. It seems that they forget the prior convictions. He should have been locked up for the rest of his life after the third felony.
|
|
|
Post by BentyProDP on May 13, 2005 12:49:34 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear of these experiences you've had. I guess that and losing a grandchild to murder would cause most to support the death penalty. But Benty - surely you know that those of us familiar with prisons and prisoners could tell a million stories like these; just like we can find a million stories of guards abusing prisoners. Both of those facts are true. Prisons are nasty; horrible environments where the worst of the worst (and a lot of others) are held in the worst of environments and with no positive interactions etc. I would think it would be a SERIOUS conflict of interest to be both a murder victim survivor and a prison worker responsible for the prisoners. Did these coincide? Was the horrible loss of your grandson after your years as a guard? Let me clear something up quickly..My term as a CO was only 3 years when I was in my 20's. Needless to say, after seeing the enviourment of a prison and the unbelievable rights the prisoners had and the CO's didnt, I made a rapid career change. My grandson was born when I was in my 50's...Perhaps I should have included in my post I was just out of the service in my twenty's and no I did not have grandchildren that young (or any I'm aware of!) I'm not sure I understand the correlation between the two?
|
|
|
Post by truth1 on May 13, 2005 12:50:22 GMT -5
Do I want Lonnie living next door to me??? Benty - WHERE do you get this stuff? I would have wanted Lonnie to do life in prison without parole, for murder, if it was up to me. Where; on the 1500 plus pages on this site and this message board; are we saying to throw open the doors and free all death row prisoners? There's just no logic in that Benty! Please argue with logic so that your points can better be considered - there are people who view this page that never post and are not committed to this issue; and saying stuff like that; sure won't convince them. Do you think the only options are kill them; or hire them a moving van? C'mon Benty! Allow me to give my own interpretation of his message. I think he is saying that he was not a nice guy. He was not some "sweet, caring individual". He may have been nice to some people; however Mr. Robert Earl Cook was not one of them.
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 12:50:31 GMT -5
Benty - I would want the killer locked up in a little cell for life with no freedom and no chance of parole.
Whatever he can do in that little tiny cell smaller than my little bathroom; let him do. I don't care; and I wouldn't spend my time thinking about it.
If my child was bad; I would punish them right away (not by hitting because consistently; I don't believe hitting stops hitting, or yelling stops yelling, or killing stops killing.) I would also like to punish the killers right away by handing down and letting them begin their life without parole sentence so everyone can forget about them.
I've said that elsewhere - not sure if it was this thread or not. And I think Joy addressed your question, and the answer was - all at different times, depending on the person - please go and re read and you will find her answer. Its like your anger is blinding you; and not only do you refuse to think about others points; but you are not even able to see them on the page.
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 12:51:49 GMT -5
Did you read this on the other thread? I have never heard from this lady before this AM and I got this :
THIS IS THE BEST FRIEND of one of the murderered girls that Michael Ross killed (we maintain a page for Ross). I want to thank Barbara for this and commend her for her grace. This is an inspiration; and I will never forget the name of her friend as a result.
She says :
Good Morning Tracy, I am against the death penalty. I would have rather seen Ross sit in jail. That was more mental torture for him. I believe Connecticut assisted him with his plan of suicide. It's a shame! I truly pray that he really did become a Christian. I wrote a letter to him but I don't know if he got it. Well, God is his final judge. I have no feelings of "justice has been served" or "he got what he deserved". State assisted suicide is just wrong! When I am interviewed by reporters, I really throw them when I stand my ground of my faith in Jesus Christ. If I didn't have that faith I would be an angry, bitter person. It is now 23 years after Paula's homecoming into the Kingdom of Heaven. I plan on finally writing a book. I hope to be able to help someone else. I am also going to start The Friends of Paula Foundation to assist child victims of violent crimes or loss of a child in anyway. God has laid this upon my heart. Now that I am 40 and have overcome the heartache it's time to put an ending to the story. Thank you for posting a request for me. Our local newspaper, Times Herald Record, is going to run a big article on Sunday. My letter to Ross is going to be published. I will try to get you a copy and mail it. I am at peace. Thank you for your concern and words of kindness. I will keep in touch with you. Thanks again... Barbara
|
|
|
Post by truth1 on May 13, 2005 12:53:26 GMT -5
Ok, let's take the gloves off. I was trying to post with a degree of modicum, but let me ask the question in another way: IF someone murdered one of your loved ones would you want that murderer to 'enjoy', (the operative word) the following: THE MURDERER GETS TO: 1. Eat three meals a day (served to them) 2. Watch TV and enjoy the entertainment it provides? 3. Get visitors they can talk to. 4. Get mail they can respond to. 5. Get married, in some cases a few times 6. Get a college degree. 7. SATISFY THEMSELVES SEXUALLY 8. Get to say good-bye to thier loved ones 9. Get to order a last meal 10. Get to make a final statement.... THE DEAD VICTIM GETS TO: 1. Do NOTHING, EVER AGAIN....PERIOD Shall we debate each item to see where the Murderer gets to go on with life and the Victim is just dead...forever? Very good point. Now they will say, "but, as a society we should be better than that".
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 12:54:06 GMT -5
I was just wondering Benty - not an attack the connection would be; I don't think that a person who has lost a loved one to a violent murder; is the best person to be put in charge of murderers - no one would blame the person for not being able to do their job impartially or for having a negative view of all those in his charge; in which case he wouldn't be the best person for the job....
|
|
|
Post by truth1 on May 13, 2005 12:55:00 GMT -5
Did you read this on the other thread? I have never heard from this lady before this AM and I got this : THIS IS THE BEST FRIEND of one of the murderered girls that Michael Ross killed (we maintain a page for Ross). I want to thank Barbara for this and commend her for her grace. This is an inspiration; and I will never forget the name of her friend as a result. She says : Good Morning Tracy, I am against the death penalty. I would have rather seen Ross sit in jail. That was more mental torture for him. I believe Connecticut assisted him with his plan of suicide. It's a shame! I truly pray that he really did become a Christian. I wrote a letter to him but I don't know if he got it. Well, God is his final judge. I have no feelings of "justice has been served" or "he got what he deserved". State assisted suicide is just wrong! When I am interviewed by reporters, I really throw them when I stand my ground of my faith in Jesus Christ. If I didn't have that faith I would be an angry, bitter person. It is now 23 years after Paula's homecoming into the Kingdom of Heaven. I plan on finally writing a book. I hope to be able to help someone else. I am also going to start The Friends of Paula Foundation to assist child victims of violent crimes or loss of a child in anyway. God has laid this upon my heart. Now that I am 40 and have overcome the heartache it's time to put an ending to the story. Thank you for posting a request for me. Our local newspaper, Times Herald Record, is going to run a big article on Sunday. My letter to Ross is going to be published. I will try to get you a copy and mail it. I am at peace. Thank you for your concern and words of kindness. I will keep in touch with you. Thanks again... Barbara She is very kind. But, she is in the minority.
|
|
|
Post by BentyProDP on May 13, 2005 12:55:42 GMT -5
Do I want Lonnie living next door to me??? Benty - WHERE do you get this stuff? I would have wanted Lonnie to do life in prison without parole, for murder, if it was up to me. Where; on the 1500 plus pages on this site and this message board; are we saying to throw open the doors and free all death row prisoners? There's just no logic in that Benty! Please argue with logic so that your points can better be considered - there are people who view this page that never post and are not committed to this issue; and saying stuff like that; sure won't convince them. Do you think the only options are kill them; or hire them a moving van? C'mon Benty! Fair statement.....However, let's not look at the 'today picture'...IF you have the DP abolished, and the person gets "life", the possibility that the "life sentence" could very well make a person eligible for parole in many years in some states....So, unless you want to stop someone from murdering, there is only one proven method of stopping future murders....execute the murderer and he/she will never kill again. It's the law
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 13:02:01 GMT -5
truth - yes you're right. Pursley was not nice to the man he brutally murdered....
Point - again?
And no; Benty's point about all those fantastic rights prisoners enjoy (BTW prisoners on DR anyway have had no education of any kind let alone college since the 70s on DR; and some states like TX have no TVs though most COs tell me they prefer when prisoners do as it makes their job easier) is not a particulary good one, and its sure not a new one. Hear that one every day but I'm not sure what the point is that it proves.
Like we've said a billion times... We've agreed on the fact that a horrible crime was committed and someone lost their lives in a terrible manner; they are lost to us and will never be here again; along with all the good they could have done in the world - now we are debating the punishment.
You guys can only say THEY ARE BAD SO LETS DO BAD THINGS TO THEM.
Sorry, most of us don't buy it.
By the way Benty I hear from prisoners a lot that they would much prefer a death sentence than life - and as Ross just proved some of them ain't just talking. I have heard of people committing murders just to get on death row - or be sentenced to death. But I have never ever ever ever heard of someone committing murder cause they wanted to be locked in a box with little human contact for the rest of their lives...
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 13:06:48 GMT -5
Benty I truly don't understand this fatalistic attitude. We have LWOP here where when they get LWOP and are declared a dangerous offender there is no parole period. Ever. There is no legislator or prime minister or judge who can change that.
If you truly would otherwise agree with LWOP in cases where thats warranted - TRUE without parole I mean - no ifs ands or buts; would you be able to put your support behind that; and behind ENSURING that they were not released, and closing up any loop holes that you think could allow for release in the future? Because I would work passionately on that - and there are people on the pro side who would to - and then there could be SEVERE sanctions and punishments that do not involve death that ALL of us could get behind, no matter where we fell on the moralities of this issue?
|
|
|
Post by catskillz on May 13, 2005 13:07:00 GMT -5
Very good point. Now they will say, "but, as a society we should be better than that". Ac CCADP said i couldn't care less about them to have these things. These guys lose all freedom thats the price they pay, and will pay forever! Truth1; u were so concerned with the wellbeing of prison guards before.. u know when DR like in texas and other state allowed more interaction, creative things to keep m occupied, much less violence was used towards guards? U treat them like animals, they will treat u the same. U treat m normally, most of them treat u normally. I'm not talking about all prisons and not talking about GPO. A death sentence doesn't mean putting someone in a concrete box under these physical and physiological conditions. Grz catz
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 13:12:20 GMT -5
I truly would like to be able to understand this Benty; if there is any ground for agreement between pro and anti dp activists on the LWOP issue. I am sincere about looking for an answer on this; because to me; saying that we need the DP because with LWOP someone thinks there may be a chance of someone getting out down the line and hurting someone again - which is a problem with the w/o part- to me its almost as bad as saying
Teenagers commit the most crime - teenage crime is bad - we have to stop the possibility of ever having teenagers commit a crime again; so lets kill all the babies. Without babies; there will never be teenagers, with no teenagers there will be no crime. So does this solve the problem of teenage crime in a moral and ethical (or even productive) manner?
Of course not.
Thats the way I see it and why I am against the DP. I don't understand why we can't meet in the middle and tell our legislators we DEMAND true LWOP options that are for real and that the public can have faith in.
|
|