|
Post by tulla63 on May 13, 2005 8:59:50 GMT -5
Why? Because one would lie and the other would swear to it. Truth1 Please..... Because you cannot expect a husband or a wife to testify against each other. You know this....... Turid
|
|
|
Post by tulla63 on May 13, 2005 9:06:12 GMT -5
What do you mean? Are you suggesting it's OK to abuse inmates now?
If they're being abused - YES. Whenever a potential threatening situation could occur, the prison guards do have means of dealing with that. Another question: Why do you think they have installed cameras in the runs? Because TDCJ are so sure about their guards never abuse anyone that they are collecting evidence against the prisoner??
Turid
|
|
|
Post by mikebook on May 13, 2005 9:35:09 GMT -5
They film the cell extractions as well. If the inmate is stupid enough to not obey an order, and does not want to comply, he deserves what he gets. The cell extractions are very dangerous for both inmates and officers alike.
|
|
|
Post by oztash on May 13, 2005 9:40:43 GMT -5
They film the cell extractions as well. If the inmate is stupid enough to not obey an order, and does not want to comply, he deserves what he gets. The cell extractions are very dangerous for both inmates and officers alike.
Mike, this is just uncalled for, please not call ppl stupid... Respect is a 2 way street...
Tasha
|
|
|
Post by EddieStratton on May 13, 2005 10:11:43 GMT -5
They do film cell extractions, that's quite right.
However, frequently the guy with the camera doesn't show up until the inmate has been assaulted off the record. Not surprising that extractions are dangerous, I have had first hand experience of the kind of capricious brutality some supermax guards are capable of dishing out.
Were I an inmate, I wouldn't be stupid enough *not* to try to resist another off-camera beating - I'd try to get in a least one good blow in retaliation. Let's remember these guys are people and they react like people, and let's remember that guards are also people and some of 'em hold extreme views of what the inmates 'deserve'.
Ed
|
|
jj
New Arrival
Posts: 5
|
Post by jj on May 13, 2005 10:23:53 GMT -5
You know, I know that inmates are not "innocent" when it comes to cell extractions at times. There are some that do bring it on themselves, for whatever reasons. I have heard many ranging from I didn't get my coffee this morning, the guy next door needs medical help and the inmate makes enough noise to bring the guards down, to protesting to mentally ill patients that have lost it and are violent and hurting themselves in the cell and they have to go in to protect him.
WHAT I DO object to though, and this is why they started filming cell extractions is when the inmate has been SUBDUED, the guards continue the assault. No matter what made the guards do the run in, once that inmate has been subdued and cuffed.... THE ATTACK STOPS and this does not happen a lot.
|
|
|
Post by mikebook on May 13, 2005 11:25:22 GMT -5
I said he was stupid for being the reason for the cell extraction is happening. I did not, I hope, say that anyone was stupid. At least hope I did not.
|
|
|
Post by BentyProDP on May 13, 2005 11:32:20 GMT -5
You said his case was "A MARGINAL DEATH PENALTY CASE TO BEGIN WITH"....? Tell me how killing someone is "marginal"? Isn't the VICTIM DEAD? There is nothing marginal about the Victim being dead...THat is a preposterous statement. Things went wrong at the trial? So what? He murdered a man by beating him to death, the trial, publicity, and everything else is not important. Stick with the act, he beat a man to death, and he forefits his life because of it period.
quote author=ex member link=board=general&thread=1115740647&start=25#1 date=1115815050]
Benty, No where has Lonnie ever stated he was completely innocent. He did however say that many things went wrong with his trial and he did NOT receive a fair trial which is all he wanted. The end does not justify the means. It should be fair throughout the entire process. His case was a marginal death penalty case to begin with. He did not deserve to die. Justice was not served on May 3rd. And though I speak this being completely emotionally attached here, I also know it is FACT known by others who have been involved. The media does not represent ALL the facts and all you are going by is what is in print. Lonnies final statement shows that he is a man of integrity, he went to his death with dignity. I am so very proud of him. [/quote]
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 11:36:20 GMT -5
hey mike; i didn't read that one in a bad way - ya gotta remember though like I say somewhere around here we are careful - sometimes too careful its because there are a lot of people who come here just to attack and a lot worse than that is said and recently people have become concerned - not wanting the board to be hijacked too much away from what it is meant to be - a support and discussion group for families and friends of DR prisoners and activists working closely with this group - so some of our little family here are a little sensitive right now. Joys husband is a prisoner on Texas death row and family members hear lots of bad stuff about the prisoners as you can imagine; so maybe she heard something that wasn't intended... i have come to respect mike from some of his other posts; so I don't think that he's getting personal here Joy we're all friends smile...
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 11:38:59 GMT -5
Benty; I think that Joy was quoting the lawyer I quoted in the first reply to this thread where I think you read this already - I posted it here and at the JFA board :
" It is not uncommon for even the most guilty person to believe that they were "guilty but framed". Put another way, they are guilty but believe they didn't receive a fair trial. No where in Lonnie's statement quoted above does he claim he is innocent. Rather, he is expressing frustration in not receiving what he perceived to be a fair trial and resulting death sentence. As far as facts go, he may be right. His was a marginal dp case. In comparative moral culpability, a lot more malignant people end up not getting death. His crime, as deplorable & despicable as it was, was not that of a Dahmer or Manson. He undoubtedly knew his was a marginal dp case, felt he received less fairness in the proceedings than he was due, and was unhappy about it. His writings are not that of someone screaming innocence, but regret over being unluckiness to being dealt a losing hand from he death prosecution deck."
thats from Karl Keys, not Joy. He's a well known criminal and constitutional lawyer.
Please reread the first two replies here; which explains why legally speaking (not emotionally speaking) his was, comparatively, a marginal DP case.
|
|
|
Post by BentyProDP on May 13, 2005 12:10:00 GMT -5
Because I would expect professional conduct from a prison guard. I don't always expect that from an inmate who isn't trained to be handling potentially harmful situations. That is why. Now it's time for you to answer to the questions you've been asked, but consequently refuse to respond to. Turid I'm not answering for Truth, but for myself. Let me give you some examples of convicted murderers acts against Corrections Officers (CO's). As a CO in Rahway State Prison now know as Northern State Prison in NJ, one of my fist assignments was tier 4 Isolation. These are prisoners who's conduct is so bad that they had already maxed out thier time in solitary, as allowed by law. So they now have thier own wing. My first night on the job, I was greeted with what is known as the "welcome wagon", where each man threw food, human waste, sperm, and/or urine on me as I made my bed-check rounds. Thank God this was prior to AIDS and there was only the stench and humiliation I suffered. Well I thought that was typical based on stories that I heard from other CO's who had been there for years. One night about 3 weeks on this assignment, I heard screaming from about 5 of the 11 prisoners that "Shaka" (*not his real name) was choking to death. I ran to his cell to find this light skinned black man's face bright red and his eyes were bulging. I immediately opened the cell door only to be greeted with a 'shank' (knife) plunged into my chest. Thank God for my training, as I subdued him and put him in restraints. I knew enough to leave the knife in my chest as it prevents some bleeding. He was taken to the hospital and examined (with photos) and deemed to be without any bruising execept on his wrist and upper arm when I subdued him. No other marks, broken bones or anything was discovered. I was taken to Rahway Memorial Hospital with a nemuo thorax (collapsed lung) and some tearing around scar tissue I had from schrapnel recived in Viet Nam. "Shaka" was charged with attempted murder of a CO and placed in a holding cell after the incident. Two months later I received a supobena to appear in court for "beating" a prisoner while he was handcuffed...Yet when the incident happened and I secured the prisoner, I was releived by two other CO's who responded to my call for help. I did something wrong in this matter. I went into a cell without backup. I was supposed to wait for a backup person but thought at that split second that the man was in danger of dying, and I acted accordingly. The charges were dismissed aginst me in the court, but I did recieve a warning in my department folder for not following the prescribed course of action. They added 25 years to "Shaka's" existing sentence of 180 years for a triple homocide... In addition to losing 1 1/2 months pay because my insurance hadn't taken effect, I was disiplined !!! When I returned to my job, the convicts laughted at me for being such a fool... Why did I share this personal experience? Simply to let you know that unless you have lived and worked among these murderers, you simply don't have a clue as to what actually goes on in a prison. Until you have lived the lfe per se, you might want to think about posting such opinions about these murderers telling the truth, accusing the system and the like. PS Shaka died in prison 5 years ago and told one of the CO's on his deathbed that he was "screwing the state out of about 190 years of his sentence...
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 12:19:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear of these experiences you've had. I guess that and losing a grandchild to murder would cause most to support the death penalty. But Benty - surely you know that those of us familiar with prisons and prisoners could tell a million stories like these; just like we can find a million stories of guards abusing prisoners. Both of those facts are true. Prisons are nasty; horrible environments where the worst of the worst (and a lot of others) are held in the worst of environments and with no positive interactions etc. I would think it would be a SERIOUS conflict of interest to be both a murder victim survivor and a prison worker responsible for the prisoners. Did these coincide? Was the horrible loss of your grandson after your years as a guard?
|
|
|
Post by BentyProDP on May 13, 2005 12:21:39 GMT -5
It sickens me to no end that you're still dragging Pam through the dirt. What Lonnie said was wonderful, he went with the greatest amount of dignity and integrity. Still, you have to attack Lonnie when you know how much Pam loved that man. Whatever Lonnie ever did, hasn't he made up for it now? When is enough - enough? Because I have promised to post in a respectful manner, I will leave it that, and leave the rest to your own consciousness. Turid When Mr. Robert Earl Cook comes out of his grave, or his loved ones stop the pain in thier hearts, then I'd say he paid. Not because someone who has in her own words claimed to be mentally unbalanced falls in love with this lying con artist, or he spent a few years behind bars, should he be wiped clean and let out? Why is it that reading the post of death supporters, they catagorically dismiss the VICTIM as being DEAD and NOTHING WILL BRING THEM BACK...so what just forget they ever exsisted? Forget they have a family that still suffers over thier sensless loss? Look at the chair the vicitm normally sat in at Thanksgiving, Christmas, birthdays, other holidays and wonder why? The man took another persons life, the most precious gift we have, and he has to pay for it. Now here is some interesting reading on this man you so ardently support: #437783, 5 year sentence from San Jacinto County for 1 count of Burglary of a Habitation, 07/08/87 released on Parole, 12/21/90 returned from Parole with a new conviction; #571873 on a 10 year sentence from San Jacinto County for 1 count of Theft By Appropriation; 06/14/91 released on Parole; 08/24/92 returned from Parole with new conviction; #621739 on a 20 year sentence from Polk and San Jacinto County for 1 count of Burglary of a Habitation; 1 count of Burglary of a Vehicle and 1 count of Unauthorized Use of a Motor Vehicle; 11/28/95 released on parole. Summary of incident On 03/29/97 the subject and a co-defendant murdered 47-year old white male inside the Deer County Subdivision in Livingston, Texas. They took the victim into a wooded area where they beat him to death and robbed him So tell me, do you want Lonnie living next door to you?
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 12:28:51 GMT -5
There are also a million stories of guards being nice to prisoners, just in small ways; for example when one guard told a prisoner with a strong innocence case "I just wanted to tell you that this is my last day working on DR - I am going to work in the Gen Population. I had to come and tell you that I have watched you here; I have seen how you act; I have seen you angry. I want you to know that I believe that you are innocent; and I hope that one day when you prove it we can meet on the outside and I will buy you a drink."
this meant so much to him, considering the rarity of this human connection; they had never exchanged any real conversation before that day.
I have heard in other cases of small kindnesses - even just being respecful and treating people like humans instead of animals - has huge payoffs for a lot of guards brave enough to do so.
Prisoners will tell you; its the new young COs that come in who are scared or have something to prove; or full of bravado; that cause problems; and the older men usually know its just a job and they do their job the best they can, without causing problems that don't exist - thus there is much less confrontation between them and guards.
Treat people like humans; they might respond (not all; some will bit you in the butt; but the majority will answer like with like...
beat them down, spit on them, call them names, etc - then - wow; like any wild animal - or trapped human - you better not let them out of their cages - especially considering as we know; some death row prisoners are deeply disturbed, mentally ill, etc.
I don't think its a secret what prisons are like; or that guards are sometimes attacked. Its a dangerous job. Thats why for the life of me I can't understand why in the US a lot of COs start at minimum wage right from high school - in Canada its a two year college course. Of course Canada still, mostly; believes in attempting to rehablitate and largely it seeems to work.
|
|
|
Post by CCADP on May 13, 2005 12:32:20 GMT -5
Do I want Lonnie living next door to me???
Benty - WHERE do you get this stuff?
I would have wanted Lonnie to do life in prison without parole, for murder, if it was up to me.
Where; on the 1500 plus pages on this site and this message board; are we saying to throw open the doors and free all death row prisoners?
There's just no logic in that Benty! Please argue with logic so that your points can better be considered - there are people who view this page that never post and are not committed to this issue; and saying stuff like that; sure won't convince them.
Do you think the only options are kill them; or hire them a moving van?
C'mon Benty!
|
|