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Post by BentyProDP on May 10, 2005 10:57:27 GMT -5
... Foreword: I am a Death Penalty proponent, based on a personal tragedy in my family. My views on the DP are firm, but fair as I am a strong advocate against innocent lives being taken.
In many cases that have appeared on this board, I have been lied to by the inmate claiming his/her innocence only to find out that the person admitted thier murderer (just before execution) and begged for forgiveness from the family/loved ones of the victim.
What can be done to prevent this ongoing offense against people that read and react to the pleadings of these murderers?
Should an impartial panel of activists, both pro and against the DP be formed and the materials being published by convicted murderers are edited for false content based on the findings of the (proposed) board?
Your comments/suggestions please.
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Post by CCADP on May 10, 2005 11:17:50 GMT -5
As far as posting on our site; we stand firm in our original mandate - we allow the prisoner to post their materials as they wish - with the note preceding the page that :
"The CCADP is pleased to provide free webpages to death row prisoners. Information on the prisoner webpages is provided by the individual prisoner and his or her supporters. The CCADP has not investigated or verified the information provided on the pages. We are providing this space to the prisoners so they have the opportunity to be heard in a public forum. We invite you to further investigate these cases - both by contacting the prisoner or supporters for more information, and by seeking out other materials available online. "
I think thats clear enough. People should be careful and look into what they are doing when researching a new computer or stereo system online.
Likewise; anyone seriously interested in possible innocence in death row cases should CERTAINLY (and I don't know who would) NOT take the inmates word as gospel truth; but as the advisory above suggests; I would hope that before becoming involved and campaigning on a case; they would look at news articles, court documents, appeal briefs; govt response to appeal briefs etc
It would be pretty naive to blindly believe the word of a death row inmate - or ANYONE for that matter. For my part; I don't just believe anything I read anywhere - I always consider where the info is coming from; and who gains from me believing what is being said. I would hope others would do the same; but I guess they don't since a lot of people seem to buy whatever they are told by prosecutors or media in a lot of cases.
I am sorry to hear of the loss in your family tho I don't know details. There are other victims family members here.
Tracy
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Post by CCADP on May 10, 2005 11:24:38 GMT -5
PS I am also posting this; that I posted on the pro death board Benty frequents; in regard to the most recent case that he thinks claimed innocence only to come clean at the last minute....below is my post there : I just posted this under the news section; but the same issue has been brought up in a bunch of your charming threads about Lonnie Pursley...so I thought I'd better post it here so none of you that are soooooo interested in it miss it.... On the lead in page to all our pages it says (and has said for many years) : "CCADP is pleased to provide free webpages to death row prisoners. Information on this prisoners webpage is provided by the individual prisoner and / or his supporters. The CCADP has not investigated or verified the information provided on these pages. We are providing this space to the prisoners so they have the opportunity to be heard in a public forum. We invite you to further investigate these cases - both by contacting the prisoner or supporters for more information, and by seeking out other materials available online" (that would be things like news articles, DOC websites etc) I think thats pretty clear. Its the prisoners words, not ours. I never ever ever anywhere made any claim about Lonnie Pursely's guilt or innocence. For me; it wasn't an issue. And also; please notice; that no where on Lonnie's CCADP page at www.ccadp.org/lonniewaynepursley.htm does he say that he is innocent. What he says is : " FABRICATED this case against me. The record will show that most of the witnesses' testimonty against me was perjured. It will also show that most of the evidence used against me was fabricated, botched, tainted, and yes, even planted ! Evidence! There was also evidence which was overlooked that may have exonerated me from the crime. " This topic was discussed on the Anti death penalty activist list ABOLISH (we don't run that its been around years before we were in this issue) someone on that board who pretends to be against the DP posted something along the lines of stuff like that being an embarrasment to abolitionists. This attorney said : " It is not uncommon for even the most guilty person to believe that they were "guilty but framed". Put another way, they are guilty but believe they didn't receive a fair trial. No where in Lonnie's statement quoted above does he claim he is innocent. Rather, he is expressing frustration in not receiving what he perceived to be a fair trial and resulting death sentence. As far as facts go, he may be right. His was a marginal dp case. In comparative moral culpability, a lot more malignant people end up not getting death. His crime, as deplorable & despicable as it was, was not that of a Dahmer or Manson. He undoubtedly knew his was a marginal dp case, felt he received less fairness in the proceedings than he was due, and was unhappy about it. His writings are not that of someone screaming innocence, but regret over being unluckiness to being dealt a losing hand from he death prosecution deck." EXACTLY. ****************** Also Benty there was a case that better fits your example - I can't recall the name offhand but I can find it for u on our pages if u like - a prisoner who claimed for years that he was innocent and even fought for the right to have DNA testing (and he fought hard for it) and paid for it himself with his and penpals funds. Turned out the DNA said he was guilty (but either he didn't know it because he had convinced himself differently - a lot of DR inmates are mentally ill - or he was lying and knew he was guilty. So he lied. A liar. Any true abolitionist would still not think he should be executed; regardless of if he's a liar or not.... would they be mad because he turned out guilty ? Well I would certainly not think so; it was their responsibilty to truly investigate if they are involved only because of an innocence issue; before they throw their money or support behind a prisoners case.
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Post by truth1 on May 10, 2005 13:20:04 GMT -5
The problem I see here Benty is that the words from the inmates are considered to be gold. How many times do people write in about an inmate claiming abuse? Alot. And the responses are all the same: " OH MY GOD. I feel so sorry for him. I want to cry." They do not consider the source. I understand compassion, but they should not look at everything so uncritically.
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jj
New Arrival
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Post by jj on May 10, 2005 14:28:55 GMT -5
Inmates are human beings and while many on death row are not bad guys, they are decent human beings, you also have those that just simply don't learn.
Just like you have jerks on the outside. I mean, do you believe everything you hear from your "friends", "neighbors", "co-workers"?? I mean, are you telling me that only people in prison lie?
The reason I believe most of the people I know is that when they are wrong, they will tell me. Are they guilty? Yes, everyone I know admits to the crime they have been convicted of. You see, not EVERYONE on death row proclaims innocence. So, when one of them tells me of some abuse or something going on, yes I will believe them.
As to Lonnie's case. All you all know is of what you read. You don't know anything else. You havn't read transcripts, police reports or even talked to Lonnie himself. Just as you don't do any of these to other people on death row. You only know what you READ in the MEDIA. That's it. You also overlooked (which you do quite often) the fact that the victims family wrote Lonnie a hand written personal note that was given to him right befor the execution of which Lonnie refered to in his final statement. YOU don't know what was in that note, neither do I. YOU don't know what Lonnie was refering to, neither do I.
Now, back to these "lies". Tell ya what. The day you tell me that you HAVE NEVER LIED TO ANYONE will be the day I will listen to what you have to say about others lying.
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Post by truth1 on May 10, 2005 14:42:38 GMT -5
Let me first explain that my previous post was regarding what Benty wrote, not what Tracy wrote about Lonnie. I do not know how to do the quote boxes so I can reply and everyone will know what I am talking about. So, you are right: I did not know what was in the letter to Lonnie. I did not claim to know that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Post by CCADP on May 10, 2005 14:44:18 GMT -5
I don't know how to do those quote boxes either...
can anyone let truth1 and I know?
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jj
New Arrival
Posts: 5
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Post by jj on May 10, 2005 14:50:08 GMT -5
In the upper right corner of the box where you are reading the messages, you will see a word that says "quote", If you click on that word, it will bring you to a box like this to type in with the previous post in quotes on it.
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Post by truth1 on May 10, 2005 14:51:36 GMT -5
Joy,
Did you think that I was talking about Lonnie?
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jj
New Arrival
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Post by jj on May 10, 2005 14:56:39 GMT -5
No, I was replying to what CCADP had written and also was implying how I feel in general about guys on death row lying. Since she had brought up Lonnie, I just added what I thought about it.
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Post by CCADP on May 10, 2005 14:57:33 GMT -5
benty - the prisoner I mentioned in the earlier post was Domingo Cantu. And I forgot until I went to look at the page to confirm that it was him; that we had added two emails to it; sent by his supporters AFTER they helped him pay for the DNA test. So this is the people who you are worried about being 'lied to' speaking for themselves : Domingo Cantu #000924 31 years old may He Rest in Peace, he was a transfomed person, decent loving human being,had grown in wisdom and love for people and Art. He was not the same person discribed by the Media 11 years ago. When he asked me for help for the DNA TEST and he also was asking for help in the Internet, I told him that I would help him and he was so happy and excited and expressed his happiness to his peers and family and spiritual adviser. So with the help of some "sweet angels" (like Domingo called them) who answered Domingo's call for help: Michelle from England who donated $ 40.00 (forty dollars), and Irene from Columbia MO donated $ 30.00(thirty dollars),and $2530.00 from working overtime which I did gladly with no regret, got the $2600.00 for the DNA TEST and with the diligent and prompt action of his Attorney David K.Sergi who got Judge Nelms to grant the order for the DNA TEST. Michelle,Irene and I just answered Domingo's call for help and we did it with the hope of saving Domingo's Life. Sincerely Your Friend And Sister In The Cause "For Life And Justice" Hermelinda . . . I just wanted to say that you did an excellent deed in getting Domingo's DNA testing done. Had I been able to help in the department - I would have sent it to the same place. I do trust this company. I am based in Texas - and do a lot of defense work. I have a string of attorneys who are Board Certified in Capital Defense - I go to many of the same seminars that they do. And, this is one of the companies who are recommended. I am sure that the news has been very hard for you to accept. But, perhaps - even if Domingo knew he was guilty - and grasping at straws - you have put a memory of a loving, caring individual in his mind for his last walk. You have shown him that there is mercy, forgiveness, love and kindness - as have so many others. Do not give up your compassion - the world needs so many more people like you Above texts from emails via Domingo Cantu's Supporters . . . You can look at Domingos page which includes his original pleas; news about the DNA test and more.... ccadp.org/domingocantu.htm
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jj
New Arrival
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Post by jj on May 10, 2005 15:15:43 GMT -5
I have also read of cases where it's not that the guy wants to prove his innocence. He wan'ts to know he did do it or not because they have no memory of the event and they needed to know for themselves.
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Post by ex member on May 10, 2005 15:58:07 GMT -5
Lets not forget that these men/women are trying to save their life. They do not wish to die. If I were in the same situation (which will most likely NEVER happen) I would be saying and doing anything possible to save my life. During the initial trial they fight to be aquitted, afterwards, they fight for their life.
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Post by BentyProDP on May 10, 2005 17:10:53 GMT -5
Inmates are human beings and while many on death row are not bad guys, they are decent human beings, you also have those that just simply don't learn. Just like you have jerks on the outside. I mean, do you believe everything you hear from your "friends", "neighbors", "co-workers"?? I mean, are you telling me that only people in prison lie? The reason I believe most of the people I know is that when they are wrong, they will tell me. Are they guilty? Yes, everyone I know admits to the crime they have been convicted of. You see, not EVERYONE on death row proclaims innocence. So, when one of them tells me of some abuse or something going on, yes I will believe them. As to Lonnie's case. All you all know is of what you read. You don't know anything else. You havn't read transcripts, police reports or even talked to Lonnie himself. Just as you don't do any of these to other people on death row. You only know what you READ in the MEDIA. That's it. You also overlooked (which you do quite often) the fact that the victims family wrote Lonnie a hand written personal note that was given to him right befor the execution of which Lonnie refered to in his final statement. YOU don't know what was in that note, neither do I. YOU don't know what Lonnie was refering to, neither do I. Now, back to these "lies". Tell ya what. The day you tell me that you HAVE NEVER LIED TO ANYONE will be the day I will listen to what you have to say about others lying. Here are Lonnies own words, not mine... www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/pursleylonnielast.htmYes. I would like to address the victim's family. I received your poem and I ma very grateful for your forgiveness. I still want to ask for it anyway. I have Jesus in my heart and I am sorry for any pain I caused you all. Thank you for your forgiveness. I am sorry. Ashlee, Pam -- I am going to miss you all. I love you all. Give everybody my love. Give everybody my love, O.K.? Mother, James, Justin, Corey, Brent, grand-babies and Daddy - I love you Pam. I love you Ashlee, Pammy and Irene. I will see you all on the other side. Couple friends on death row who have helped me; Shy town and Crazy Jay...I love you all and for all your support. Uncle Ray too. I am saved and I am going home, O.K.? You all stay strong. You all stay strong. That is all
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Post by CCADP on May 10, 2005 17:14:08 GMT -5
thanks for sending that Benty - I didn't know they had posted the whole thing (I only saw the first portion that the media had reported.) I'll add it to his page.
I think I'm the first one to have posted the news article mentioning his apology to the victims over at your board - know I posted it here as soon as the news came over the internet; like we always do ...
tracy
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