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Post by Rasoolpuri on Apr 16, 2005 22:11:31 GMT -5
I am a human rights lawyer from Pakistan .I am against death penalty .I wrote a book againt death penalty in Urdu language Saza_i_ maut kion( why death sentence) Urdu is state language of Pakistan .There is no movement against death penalty in Pakistan ,because 99% population is muslim and muslims beleive that death penalty is according to their creed .
I want to ask ,is this board is open for the discussion about death penalty in Pakistan or not .Thanks dear brothers
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Post by CCADP on Apr 16, 2005 22:19:29 GMT -5
It certainly is! The Canadian Coalition Against the Death Penalty and our members are interested in persons sentenced to death around the world; and want to be of help stopping the death penalty where ever we can!
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Post by Rasoolpuri on Apr 16, 2005 22:52:07 GMT -5
Thank you sir for your kind reply .Hope we shall stay in contact .How i work against death penalty in my country .Any suggession?
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Post by CCADP on Apr 18, 2005 12:14:55 GMT -5
Well to start; we'd be more than happy to begin a page on the death penalty in Pakistan. We'll start with things like Amnesty reports; etc. If you can send to us in english news articles on the issue; or if you can telll us the names of Pakistan death row prisoners and send us their addresses we would be happy to write them and offer them free webpages as a start; to get their info, cases, and words out to the world. We'd need help in translating though. If you can help with this we would be pleased to work with you on this project. if you can create a webpage in your language or just what you would want posted n it we'd be happy to make it or link to it!
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Post by Jayson on Apr 18, 2005 12:52:19 GMT -5
I need to ask this, I am against the DP, but I was wondering, is there any one extreem case, where the DP would be justified? Or should all cases that require the DP be sought as life behind bars W/O parole? I am just wonder, I like in Minnesota, and we do not have the DP, but do have lifers. Thanks for the great board.
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Post by CCADP on Apr 18, 2005 13:08:46 GMT -5
No; we don't have the right to kill anyone. If any one was justified - I'd say the execution of someone who'd signed tons of execution warrants themselves - like Hitler, Saddam, Bush for that matter). But even in extreme cases we believe in life without parole. Where life means life. in cases where its extreme.
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Post by Rasoolpuri on Apr 18, 2005 13:54:45 GMT -5
Thank you very much for your kind reply .I shall stay in contact with you through this forum .I shall send you informations about death row prisoners .Also i want to start a project in my country according to your suggessions .Please guide me about this project Well to start; we'd be more than happy to begin a page on the death penalty in Pakistan. We'll start with things like Amnesty reports; etc. If you can send to us in english news articles on the issue; or if you can telll us the names of Pakistan death row prisoners and send us their addresses we would be happy to write them and offer them free webpages as a start; to get their info, cases, and words out to the world. We'd need help in translating though. If you can help with this we would be pleased to work with you on this project. if you can create a webpage in your language or just what you would want posted n it we'd be happy to make it or link to it!
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Post by Lola1950 on Apr 19, 2005 13:10:14 GMT -5
I am new to this forum. I have worked with Amnesty International for over thirty years, focusing on the abolishment of the death penalty. On January 18, 2001, my beloved friend who I knew since 1953, David Buller, was brutally murdered in his office at the University of Toronto where he was a professor of visual arts. For me, and anyone else who has lost a loved one through murder, my life has forever changed. I am very grateful to David's family and friends who, like me, are against the death penalty. Though we do not have it in Canada, in our grief, not once did the conversations go to revenge. David's murder case has gone cold. Instead of dwelling in hatred or anger, his family and friends set up a scholarship fund at the University of Toronto and we are working on a project to show David's art. Honouring the memory of David helps. I remain fully committed to my work against the death penalty, which is part of my way of honouring David who was also opposed to it. Sadly, there are few support groups for those who have lost a loved one to murder in Canada, at least in Toronto and Ontario. I have experienced the death of many loved ones, my father and years later my brother died peacefully in my arms. I have also been at many deathbeds when I did volunteer work for people dying of AIDS. Murder is different, there is really no way of dealing with it, the grieving process does not get any better with time. Some people have asked me about revenge, but I will not allow that into my heart. I would like to ask his murderer "why", but I know that there could never be an answer to that. I believe that executions are murder, and again, I will continue my work as long as I can for the international abolishment of the death penalty. I do, however, believe that people like Karla Homolka, should not be allowed out of jail after only twelve years. My heart goes to the families of all victims of murder.
Lola
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Post by ex member on Apr 19, 2005 13:19:56 GMT -5
I am in a unique position because I am a murder victim survivor. last year, in March of 2004, my little 16 year old cousin Amanda was murdered by a suspected serial killer. This man is in jail and awaits trial on capital murder charges of several women. I OPPOSE THE DEATH PENALTY! Even for the murderer of my cousin.
I am very good friends with a man who is on Texas Death Row, his name is Lonnie Pursley and he is scheduled to be executed on May 3rd, 2005 if he doesn't get a stay. Lonnie is the most wonderful man I have ever known. I will be at his side all next week and the beginning of the following week.
I know the human side to death row. The killings by the states need to stop. There are no cases which should rank higher than any other. All executions need to end!!
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Post by Rasoolpuri on Apr 19, 2005 15:36:35 GMT -5
Hi ex member
Very sorry for murder of your cousin ,Indeed it is your greatness that you did not change you ideas about abolishment of death penalty
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Post by Rasoolpuri on Apr 19, 2005 15:41:28 GMT -5
Hi Lola 1950 Welcome to you in this forum .I am sorry for murder of your learned freind . Hope this shock will not defeat your mission I am new to this forum. I have worked with Amnesty International for over thirty years, focusing on the abolishment of the death penalty. On January 18, 2001, my beloved friend who I knew since 1953, David Buller, was brutally murdered in his office at the University of Toronto where he was a professor of visual arts. For me, and anyone else who has lost a loved one through murder, my life has forever changed. I am very grateful to David's family and friends who, like me, are against the death penalty. Though we do not have it in Canada, in our grief, not once did the conversations go to revenge. David's murder case has gone cold. Instead of dwelling in hatred or anger, his family and friends set up a scholarship fund at the University of Toronto and we are working on a project to show David's art. Honouring the memory of David helps. I remain fully committed to my work against the death penalty, which is part of my way of honouring David who was also opposed to it. Sadly, there are few support groups for those who have lost a loved one to murder in Canada, at least in Toronto and Ontario. I have experienced the death of many loved ones, my father and years later my brother died peacefully in my arms. I have also been at many deathbeds when I did volunteer work for people dying of AIDS. Murder is different, there is really no way of dealing with it, the grieving process does not get any better with time. Some people have asked me about revenge, but I will not allow that into my heart. I would like to ask his murderer "why", but I know that there could never be an answer to that. I believe that executions are murder, and again, I will continue my work as long as I can for the international abolishment of the death penalty. I do, however, believe that people like Karla Homolka, should not be allowed out of jail after only twelve years. My heart goes to the families of all victims of murder. Lola
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Post by EddieStratton on Apr 20, 2005 20:55:28 GMT -5
"I need to ask this, I am against the DP, but I was wondering, is there any one extreem case, where the DP would be justified? Or should all cases that require the DP be sought as life behind bars W/O parole?"
Hi Jayson;
There's a kind of moral calculus we have to apply to questions like yours. So, let's try to work out where we stand:
Question: When is it morally acceptable to kill another human being?
Well, firstly, we can all accept the validity of self-defense using reasonable force in an emergency where there is a real danger that life will be lost at the hands of someone who is a clear and present threat. Sometimes it has been necessary to kill another in self-defense, and where this happens this is technically not murder.
Second, we all agree that the premeditated killing of another human being is a crime. Technically, this is murder.
So, in the event where someone represents a lethal threat to innocent people, we have the right to defend ourselves and others without worrying that we might be committing a crime.
However, let's imagine we've now caught the person who was creating the threat, so there's no longer any immediate danger. Any further violence on our part would be pre-meditated and therefore cold-blooded. It's no longer self-defense, it's premeditated, therefore it would constitute the crime of murder.
Ultimately though, it's down to your own sense of ethics, and what you feel is just. But whatever you decide is right, you have to take responsibility for making the case to support what you'd do.
Your second question:
"should all cases that require the DP be sought as life behind bars W/O parole?"
Not necessarily. It depends on the individual case and it depends on your idea of what constitutes justice. Personally speaking, my idea of what justice looks like is entirely different to the US legal system. I agree with the likes of Plato, Aristotle and Socrates, in that I think the adversarial system is primitive and stupid. The courts' main job is to reward the cleverest arguments and not to discover truths.
Cheers,
Eddie
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Post by Rasoolpuri on Apr 20, 2005 21:31:53 GMT -5
Kindly explain your idea"The courts' main job is to reward the cleverest arguments and not to discover truths."
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Post by BentyProDP on Apr 21, 2005 17:21:07 GMT -5
I am from the US and for the DP...and I am confused by your reply saying it is ok to kill someone who poses a threat, self defense. That being the case, the person killing the other person posing the threat becomes the judge, jury and executioner all at once...hmmm please clarify your position if you would, because it contradicts what you are against (the DP after a fair trial).. "I need to ask this, I am against the DP, but I was wondering, is there any one extreem case, where the DP would be justified? Or should all cases that require the DP be sought as life behind bars W/O parole?" Hi Jayson; There's a kind of moral calculus we have to apply to questions like yours. So, let's try to work out where we stand: Question: When is it morally acceptable to kill another human being? Well, firstly, we can all accept the validity of self-defense using reasonable force in an emergency where there is a real danger that life will be lost at the hands of someone who is a clear and present threat. Sometimes it has been necessary to kill another in self-defense, and where this happens this is technically not murder. Second, we all agree that the premeditated killing of another human being is a crime. Technically, this is murder. So, in the event where someone represents a lethal threat to innocent people, we have the right to defend ourselves and others without worrying that we might be committing a crime. However, let's imagine we've now caught the person who was creating the threat, so there's no longer any immediate danger. Any further violence on our part would be pre-meditated and therefore cold-blooded. It's no longer self-defense, it's premeditated, therefore it would constitute the crime of murder. Ultimately though, it's down to your own sense of ethics, and what you feel is just. But whatever you decide is right, you have to take responsibility for making the case to support what you'd do. Your second question: "should all cases that require the DP be sought as life behind bars W/O parole?" Not necessarily. It depends on the individual case and it depends on your idea of what constitutes justice. Personally speaking, my idea of what justice looks like is entirely different to the US legal system. I agree with the likes of Plato, Aristotle and Socrates, in that I think the adversarial system is primitive and stupid. The courts' main job is to reward the cleverest arguments and not to discover truths. Cheers, Eddie
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Post by PeaceIsTheWay on Apr 23, 2005 11:18:35 GMT -5
You ask a fair question Jayson.
On a personal level most of us have made up our minds about that, as Eddie Stratton has said Would you allow someone to come into your home and kill your family? Or would you choose to kill if that is what the situation demanded in order to protect your family?
Yet when we put the burden or responsibilty on society as a whole to decide what is punishable, or not, by death, we lose our own power and must accept, as a society, the consequences of killing a human being.
If we accept the Biblical scripture, which I am sure has an equivalent in the Muslim religion at least. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life", if we as a society kill someone, are we not clearly in line for the same retribution? Must we not bear the same guilt?
And if we, as a society were prepared to execute someone for his actions, must we not, in all conscience hear his side? What a story that would be!
How did he get to be "that way"? Did we as a society not give him enough support of the idea that killing doesnt serve anyone? Or would we see how society(some more than others) puts such a low value on human lives that we feel it necessary to kill people even though we are safe from them because they are already locked up behind bars?
How many public newspapers, movies, books and games glorify killing? Show that killing others does get you what you want? Did society give him help, love, acceptance, support when he asked? When he went to reform school, or to prison first, did we rehabilitate him successfully? Or did we merely lock him up and treat him with contempt?
If we must put him on trial, we must also put society as a whole on trial. We must bear the consequences of our actions, even if it is inaction. How else do we change the world? Recognize our mistakes and then make better choices.
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