sdl
New Arrival
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Post by sdl on Nov 2, 2005 16:18:02 GMT -5
Few questions. How do you think they would retaliate, by trying to kill Arnold for not stopping the execution? Also, if they were to do so, wouldn't that be a terrible diservice to what Williams has been accomplishing. Why would they retaliate for someone that preaches the evil of what they do? Once a Crip, always a Crip. Even though Tookie has disavowed them, he's like a George Washington. Crips are nationwide, and have supporters worldwide as well. Ahh-nuld could be a target anywhere in the world.
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Mo-DAWG
Settlin' In
Yes... this is the real Mo-DAWG ..
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Post by Mo-DAWG on Nov 2, 2005 16:31:04 GMT -5
Few questions. How do you think they would retaliate, by trying to kill Arnold for not stopping the execution? Also, if they were to do so, wouldn't that be a terrible diservice to what Williams has been accomplishing. Why would they retaliate for someone that preaches the evil of what they do? Once a Crip, always a Crip. Even though Tookie has disavowed them, he's like a George Washington. Crips are nationwide, and have supporters worldwide as well. Ahh-nuld could be a target anywhere in the world. its a waste of time to explain the pros that .... they ll never get how this gang thing works ... theyre like "yeah the state is the top dog and thats it...nobody could harm us".... holy sh*t ..these people arent half as safe as they assume they were... they know a sh*t about a cuzz.. Mo-DAWG
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Deb
Settlin' In
~If you regret anything in life, don't regret not spending enough time with your children~
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Post by Deb on Nov 2, 2005 18:12:25 GMT -5
Well, thanks for the responses.
I'm well aware of how gangs/ganglife works, I was smack dab in the middle of it growing up and I didn't grow up in poverty, just a suburb of Chicago, and more friends then I care to remember lost their life to that lifestyle. As a matter of fact one of my oldest friends was a leader. With his last bout in jail my brother did everything in his power to help him go straight, which he ended up doing, finally gettin his life on track, actually went back to school to become a lawyer, didn't matter, they murdered him anyway. Nonetheless, I get the whole once a member always a member thing.
Actually I guess what I was trying to find out is what type of retaliation do you think they would take if they did. Also, since the way loyalty goes with gangs, it would just seem that since Williams being one of their founders is trying to promote non-violence, that to retaliate on his behalf would make him look bad, that is where my thinking was.
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Post by dio on Nov 2, 2005 18:49:18 GMT -5
Consider this point Deb.....The antis tell us to spare Williams for all the work he has done to eliminate gangs....Good argument UNTIL....the same antis say don't execute him cause the gangs will retaliate.....Wait a frickin minute I thought he did all that great work...and yet we still got gangs?.now what was the argument for sparing him again? dio
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sdl
New Arrival
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Post by sdl on Nov 2, 2005 20:26:46 GMT -5
Even though he has repudiated the Crips, there are some members who still consider him a Crip. "Once a Crip, always a Crip" is how they feel and they will feel it is their "honor" to avenge his death. What Tookie says is of no matter to them.
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Post by dio on Nov 2, 2005 20:33:01 GMT -5
I fail to see that logic SDL...Please ask MoDawg I do respect a legitamate argument when I actually HEAR one.Now please explain(yes I did say PLEASE to an anti...LOL)to me the following error I find in your arguments You(and other antis)have posted to great length that there will be retaliatory strikes by the Crips if Tookie is executed.Ok I understand ya so far maybe maybe not we'll do it ands find out baring a stay. But then you confuse me and post that Tookie is of no matter to them.Now really SDL if he is of no matter then why would they bother to retaliate for his execution?I freely admit I know little of the gangsta mentality but common sense would say if he is of no matter alive he should be no matter dead.......Please explain I am intrested in this seemingly erroneous logic in the argument presnted dio ps...I mean this in as respectful of a questioning way as I can word it,I will refrain from dragging the debate to further realms if you simply answer the question I pose
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sdl
New Arrival
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Post by sdl on Nov 3, 2005 2:14:08 GMT -5
What I meant to say is that even if Tookie has disavowed the Crips, the Crips have not forgotten the fact he formed them. They will regard that as an attack on THEM. They WILL retaliate and the cycle will repeat itself. Let's say somebody retaliates against Schwarzenegger. When that person's time comes, the cycle will repeat. It's "honor" in the gang community.
You can't outlaw them...they can go underground
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Post by dio on Nov 3, 2005 3:00:10 GMT -5
Ok I can "understand"that....it sounds more like instead of respect these individuals are more "tradition"oriented.........It doesn't matter to them what he is or claims to be today,they feel they "owe"him for his connection to them........Hopefully such things can be dealt with by some of their calmer leadship elments cause I really don't see any Gov official being held to such ummmmmm demands(for lack of better word...its 3am LOL) thanx for your answer I think I know what ya mean. dio
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Post by Maggie on Nov 3, 2005 15:38:55 GMT -5
Consider this point Deb.....The antis tell us to spare Williams for all the work he has done to eliminate gangs....Good argument UNTIL....the same antis say don't execute him cause the gangs will retaliate.....Wait a frickin minute I thought he did all that great work...and yet we still got gangs?.now what was the argument for sparing him again? dio Why don't you ask the people that nominated him for the Nobel Peace prize?
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Post by CCADP on Nov 4, 2005 7:15:23 GMT -5
Stanley Tookie Williams "Teach-In Week" for Teachers, Youth Organizers, and Youth Ministries -----November 14th - 21st Death Penalty Focus 870 Market St. Ste. 859 San Francisco, CA 94102 Tel. 415-243-0143 - Fax 415-243-0994 - www.deathpenalty.org1) Action Items Stanley Tookie Williams "Teach-In Week" for Teachers, Youth Organizers, and Youth Ministries -------- November 14th - 21st This event is a part of the effort to seek clemency for Stanley Williams. Williams, once a leader of the Crips street gang, has dedicated his life to ending gang violence while on death row at San Quentin. He is scheduled to be executed by the state of California on December 13th. The basis of the clemency petition is that Stanley's personal redemption and his message of education, self-discipline and peace have had a positive impact on young people around the world. If California executes this man, what message will that be sending to the young people that Williams is trying to help? The "Tookie Teach-In Week" is scheduled for November 14th through the 21st. The topics that could be discussed during the teach-in week include: gangs, drugs, peer pressure, redemption, civic responsibility, forgiveness, rehabilitation and the death penalty. We have developed materials to assist you with the "Teach-in" including: a short biography of Stanley Williams, Stanley's protocol for peace, his apology for co-founding the Crips, his letters to Youth #1 and #2, excerpts from his books and sample lesson plans on the death penalty. A suggested reading list is also included with this packet. You can access all of the "Teach-in" materials in .pdf format at: www.deathpenalty.org/pdf_files/CurriculumTookieWeek.pdfWe hope the "Teach In" will generate media attention and the legal team plans to video tape participating classes where permitted and appropriate. Please email mailto:stefanie@deathpenalty.org or call 415-243-0141 to let us know how your class/group is participating and whether you would allow taping. 2) Upcoming Events NOVEMBER 4, 2005 Panelists Share Stories About Their Personal Experience with the Criminal Justice System-----Sponsored by Amnesty International USA Group #452 Begins at 7:30pm Unitarian Universalist Church of Ventura 5654 Ralston Street Ventura, CA Panelists include: Tom Goldstein - wrongfully imprisoned in California for 24 years Carol Duncanson - lost a close family member to murder Rita Barker - lost a loved one to execution by the State of California Rev. Jan Christian - Moderator Admission: FREE Co-sponsored by Death Penalty Focus and Social Action/UUCV For further information call: Susan Bronn (805) 981-0837 or Bob Gips (805) 643-6605
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Post by CCADP on Nov 4, 2005 7:20:22 GMT -5
Clemency for 'Tookie' Williams
On Ded. 13 at 12:01 a.m., Stanley "Tookie" Williams, who helped found the Crips gang in Los Angeles at the age of 17, is scheduled to die in the execution chamber at San Quentin Prison. His only chance to escape death by lethal injection is a grant of clemency from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
The odds are against Williams, now 51, being spared. The last governor to award clemency to a death row inmate was Ronald Reagan in 1967.
Yet it is hard to imagine how an inmate could contribute more to society from behind prison walls than Williams has. That is why we urge Schwarzenegger, who has made rehabilitation the focus of his prison reform strategy, to follow Reagan's lead and respond affirmatively to Williams' plea.
Even those skeptical of Williams' transformation need not worry that he will ever again be a danger to society. He is seeking that his death sentence be commuted, and in its place that he serve a life sentence without the possibility of parole.
The crimes Williams was convicted of committing were horrific. He was convicted of robbing a 7-Eleven store in Whittier in 1979, and in the process killing 26-year-old Albert Owens, who worked there. He was also convicted of killing three members of the Yang family, who operated the Brookdale Motel in Los Angeles, during another robbery 11 days later.
Until a half century ago, Death Row inmates had little time to reflect on what they had done, or to seek redemption. They were typically executed within a year or two of being convicted. These days, far more death row inmates die from natural causes than are executed.
In an unintended consequence of the lengthening gap between conviction and execution in California, Williams has had an opportunity to transform his life from one of violence and drugs to one that serves the social good.
During his 24 years on death row, Williams has worked to break the influence of gangs like the one he helped organize. He has made videotapes that have been shown to rival gang members to encourage them to end their internecine conflicts. He has participated in telephone-conference calls with schoolchildren in urban neighborhoods torn by gang violence. He has written a series of children's books, subtitled "Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence." "Don't join a gang," he wrote in one of them. "You won't find what you're looking for. All you will find is trouble, pain and sadness. I know. I did."
While Williams has consistently insisted on his innocence, even the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in San Francisco, which rejected his petitions for a new trial, hinted that he might be deserving of clemency. In an unusual comment, the court noted that "his good works and accomplishments since incarceration may make him a worthy candidate for the exercise of gubernatorial discretion."
Simply put, Williams is of more use alive than dead. His continued work against gangs benefits us all.
(source: Editorial, San Francisco Chronicle)
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Post by CCADP on Nov 9, 2005 4:51:24 GMT -5
Nobel Nominee and Death Row Prisoner Stanley Tookie Williams Files Petition for Clemency With California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger Stanley Tookie Williams' petition for clemency will be filed with California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger on Tuesday, November 8, 2005. Stanley Williams is scheduled to be executed by the State of California on December 13, 2005. The clemency petition asks Governor Schwarzenegger to exercise his discretionary power to spare Stanley Williams' life. The basis of the petition is Stanley Williams' personal redemption, the hope given to others by his message of education, self-discipline, purpose and peace, and the positive impact his message will continue to have if the Governor spares his life by granting clemency. Peter Fleming Jr., of Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle, LLP, clemency co-counsel for Stanley Williams, states: "We file this petition with faith it will receive conscientious review by Governor Schwarzenegger. We file it with belief, for all the reasons set forth in the petition, that the Governor will exercise clemency and thereby send a message of hope to those for whom Stanley Williams is a symbol of hope." Background on Stanley Williams Stanley Williams was one of the founders of the Crips street gang. He was convicted of four murders in 1981, and has been on death row at San Quentin for the past 24 years. Stanley Williams has always maintained his innocence of these crimes. While on death row, Stanley Williams has undergone a personal redemption. He has openly apologized for his role in forming the Crips and his actions as a gang member, and become a prominent anti-gang spokesman. He has written a series of anti-gang books for children, promoted gang truces, and given numerous talks to at-risk youth about the power of education, self-discipline and peace. He has received thousands of emails from individuals influenced by this message. As a result of his work while on death row, Stanley has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and for the Nobel Prize in Literature. This year, he received the President's Call to Service Award. In 2004, the Ninth Circuit, in an extraordinary opinion, denied Stanley Williams legal relief but volunteered, in respect to clemency, that Stanley Williams' "good works and accomplishments since incarceration may make him a worthy candidate for the exercise of gubernatorial discretion." Clemency The last California Governor to grant clemency was Ronald Reagan in 1967, 38 years ago. Clemency is not a reversal of the judgment of the courts, but an exercise of executive discretion. The Founding Fathers of this Nation vested the clemency power in the executive, and the Governor's power to grant clemency is found in the California Constitution. Website: www.cm-p.com/clemency.htmWebsite: www.tookie.com/(source: PRNewswire)
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Post by Falcon66 on Nov 10, 2005 12:44:56 GMT -5
just like our government....I think I may wanna move to Canada......
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Post by dio on Nov 10, 2005 12:49:04 GMT -5
Consider this point Deb.....The antis tell us to spare Williams for all the work he has done to eliminate gangs....Good argument UNTIL....the same antis say don't execute him cause the gangs will retaliate.....Wait a frickin minute I thought he did all that great work...and yet we still got gangs?.now what was the argument for sparing him again? dio Based upon the type of people they find supportive of peace I'm not so sure I would believe a damm word they said. dio Why don't you ask the people that nominated him for the Nobel Peace prize?
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Post by judywaits4u on Nov 10, 2005 17:28:00 GMT -5
I think that if the Governor has a decent cell in his body he will commute the death sentence on Tookie, it might well be a shrewed political move as well because he is going to need the anti-CP supporters if he is to win his re-election next year.
If he executes Tookie, it will be as good as the State of California saying that they failed and that they are not able to reform people in their prison system.
Love and hugs, Judy
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