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Post by pinbalwyz on Sept 9, 2007 5:50:57 GMT -5
The minimum to keep society safe - Oh you mean drop the work for charitable purposes and just go with the removal of didgeridoos, Happy? ;)Yep, could be done. Still think we could make a bit of use of the guys before they go back out didgeridoo-less... ;D I kind of like the image of a hardened criminal sat at a table surrounded by mohair wool, trying to master the pearl and knit technique with a pair of bright pink plastic knitting needles.... Don't forget the Chinese technique of harvesting the organs of the condemned! Yeah...that's the spirit!
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Post by pinbalwyz on Sept 9, 2007 5:56:46 GMT -5
The minimum to keep society safe - Oh you mean drop the work for charitable purposes and just go with the removal of didgeridoos, Happy? ;)Yep, could be done. Still think we could make a bit of use of the guys before they go back out didgeridoo-less... ;D I kind of like the image of a hardened criminal sat at a table surrounded by mohair wool, trying to master the pearl and knit technique with a pair of bright pink plastic knitting needles.... Or not. Some men find needlework relaxing and enjoyable. Two things are going on, I believe. One is that public thirst for bloody revenge that we have going in the U.S. The other is that we don't seem to know what to do with the addiction that child abusers have. We have the Betty Ford Clinics and the 12 Step Programs and such for alcohol and drug addicts, but we go for bloody revenge when it comes to child abusers instead of at least trying to find out if a clinic or a program could be of any help to them. Sure, child abusers have to pay up and make amends, apologies, and restitution (insofar as possible) for what they've done, just as alcoholics and drug abusers have to do. But the rest of us need to solve the problems we actually have, and not create other problems that we don't have at the moment. The "knitting circle" is also going to pass around a few tips about how to find more children and lose the cops while they pass their yarn around the needles. But alcoholism and drug addiction can potentially be cured. Pedophiles, on the other hand, if unmonitored are very difficult to cure. Many years were spent by the Prison Psychiatrists in California's Atascadero facilty to achieve the ends you suggest without success. The professional organization for psychiatry long ago removed pedophiles from the list of psychiatric disorders and categorized their problem as personality disorders. Psychiatric disorders often lend themselves to treatment. Imagine if you lived in a world/society of homosexuals but you were heterosexual. Could you be 'cured'?
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Post by pinbalwyz on Sept 9, 2007 6:01:24 GMT -5
All in all (so far) the arguments I see advanced on this board are eons ahead of and more rational than the ones typical on the pro-DP GREGGSMOM inhabits. Still, the discussion on perverts I just read indicates raw emotionalism remains a powerful draw when discussing the law, crime, and punishment.
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Post by pumpkinpie on Sept 9, 2007 10:45:49 GMT -5
Or not. Some men find needlework relaxing and enjoyable. Two things are going on, I believe. One is that public thirst for bloody revenge that we have going in the U.S. The other is that we don't seem to know what to do with the addiction that child abusers have. We have the Betty Ford Clinics and the 12 Step Programs and such for alcohol and drug addicts, but we go for bloody revenge when it comes to child abusers instead of at least trying to find out if a clinic or a program could be of any help to them. Sure, child abusers have to pay up and make amends, apologies, and restitution (insofar as possible) for what they've done, just as alcoholics and drug abusers have to do. But the rest of us need to solve the problems we actually have, and not create other problems that we don't have at the moment. The "knitting circle" is also going to pass around a few tips about how to find more children and lose the cops while they pass their yarn around the needles. But alcoholism and drug addiction can potentially be cured. Pedophiles, on the other hand, if unmonitored are very difficult to cure. Many years were spent by the Prison Psychiatrists in California's Atascadero facilty to achieve the ends you suggest without success. The professional organization for psychiatry long ago removed pedophiles from the list of psychiatric disorders and categorized their problem as personality disorders. Psychiatric disorders often lend themselves to treatment. Imagine if you lived in a world/society of homosexuals but you were heterosexual. Could you be 'cured'? Sounds much worse than a personality disorder. I've heard of borderline personality disorders, and people with multiple personalities. I don't know which category pedophiles would fit into. I would just call them plain old sick and psychotic. And yes, I do think if most people were heterosexual and living in a world that was the opposite, most would be more inclined to follow the trend. Just like most of us like to dress according to the latest styles/fashions. Most people don't want to be on the outside looking in. Everyone is different, and some people are really different. There is nothing wrong with being different. I have no understanding of how someone becomes a pedophile, and find it so sick and bizarre that I have no compassion for those who commit these dispicable acts. However, I don't think the death penalty is the answer. Maybe killing them before hand might be. Just kidding!
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Post by phoenix on Oct 29, 2007 8:21:41 GMT -5
Well now maybe this man would not be so vengful if I don't know lets say..he didn't see his parents murdererd? But since that didn't happen, don't you think he has a right to want to see the man who killed his parents dead. I do. Son is eager to see parents' killer die Leonardo Chavez III, who as a 9-year-old boy saw his mother and father beaten and killed, said he hopes the execution this week of the man responsible for their deaths will calm his dreams, especially the recurring one in which his slain parents' eyes glow red. . . . "I want to see him die," he said. (source: San Antonio Express-News)
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Post by happyhaddock on Oct 29, 2007 22:44:29 GMT -5
Well now maybe this man would not be so vengful if I don't know lets say..he didn't see his parents murdererd? But since that didn't happen, don't you think he has a right to want to see the man who killed his parents dead. I do. Would you want to see the man who raped your sister raped? What else? Why special treatment for murder? Why can't we behave better, as a society, than the criminals? If you look into your heart you will find it is not justice you seek.
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Post by legallybrunette on Oct 30, 2007 9:42:28 GMT -5
I have to admit that if someone were to do my loved ones wrong so as to harm them physically in anyway whatsoever, I would want vengeance but it would have to be something that would leave them humiliated, eg - rapist gets their thingybob removed or a murderer could perhaps be made to do some form of really hard labour and have meals skipped if they don't work hard enough for years and years so that society gets some benefit and they have their comforts taken away from them. You don't have to take a person's life to get vengeance, if that is what it is about and I am absolutely certain that is all the DP is about.
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 30, 2007 9:50:19 GMT -5
If you look into your heart you will find it is not justice you seek. It is revenge.... That's a good line happy!
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 30, 2007 9:53:04 GMT -5
I have to admit that if someone were to do my loved ones wrong so as to harm them physically in anyway whatsoever, I would want vengeance but it would have to be something that would leave them humiliated, eg - rapist gets their thingybob removed or a murderer could perhaps be made to do some form of really hard labour and have meals skipped if they don't work hard enough for years and years so that society gets some benefit and they have their comforts taken away from them. You don't have to take a person's life to get vengeance, if that is what it is about and I am absolutely certain that is all the DP is about. Their thingbob removed! Hilarious! ;D They couldn't go pee then.
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sdl
New Arrival
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Post by sdl on Oct 31, 2007 13:16:17 GMT -5
I don't think that any of us forgets that those who murder are the so-called 'bad guys'. I do say, 'so-called', since there's a human being behing the term 'murderer'. Have you ever made an effort to look at the human being, the causes that would render one a 'murderer'. Can any one of us honestly say that under certain conditions, we would not kill. I honestly can't. Justice ideally should be about punishment, not vengeance or inflicting suffering. Rehabilitation is about justice. That 'murderer' may well be beyond redemption, however, it may be the converse. Nelson Mandela was once described as a terrorist and a murderer. Today, he is revered worldwide. The terms 'justice' is an abstract one. Anyone who says they wish to see a person die, as in the beginning of this thread, has one huge problem. Who, among us, could ever enjoy seeing the barbaric death of a human being. The 'closure' argument is one that's without merit and has become beyond tiresome. If the death of a person brings 'closure', what does that say about humanity? It says civilization is a thin veneer. That's why it's so important to try to preserve it. BTW, what was the Israeli Prime Minister's name (now deceased) who years earlier had bombed the King David hotel? (Begin?) I'm not certain of the spelling or the guy. That was Menachem Begin, or as I would call him "Menachem the Meshugge" (and yes, I am Jewish)
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Post by poseidon on Jan 24, 2008 18:00:12 GMT -5
The French anarchist Elisee Reclus, in his booklet entitled "La Peine de Mort" stated that the death penalty has its origins in vengeance.
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