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Post by sclcookie on Jan 4, 2006 8:57:59 GMT -5
Suzanne, I wonder how many on this board work on saving the lives of those who are likely to end up on death row or serving LWOP before they commit their crimes. I wonder how many people on the pro board do the same. If one could do that then perhaps there will be fewer victims. I know this is a bit off the subject.... Suzanne, I do intellectually know that antis in general are not anti victim. However doing things such as calling convicted murderers "heroes" is a bit much. Personally calling them friends is not offensive to me but I am not a MVS and I can understand for a MVS the right for a murderer to have any joy in their life is a dreadfully offensive concept. Also you might say the around invovling the death of Tookie Williams just gives pros more proof that antis are not only anti dp they are into murderer worship. Why is he different to all the other inmates on DR in California.. I suspect on California's Death Row there are maybe a few other candidates who are more likely innocent...and no I am not making some hidden reference to Scott Peterson here. Ok, there "was" one person on DR I claim as my hero. Everyone knows that is Richard Cartwright. And I'm assuming you've read his Uncensored. If you haven't and you want to know why he was my hero, read it. I have some personal notes in there. As far as murderers are concerned, yeah, some may eventually be my hero, however, not because of the murder itself, but because of something they may have done, something good. My son, a 14 year old is my hero because of the person he is.....don't get me wrong, he's far from perfect (he's a teenager), however, I'm proud of him for some of the small thing he has done. One of my ex-supervisors is my hero. The woman is a crazy a$$ B*cth from hell, however, she has a good heart, which she rarely shows, however, she has a good side that she doesn't really like to show. This boy who I rode the bus with when I was in Junior High is my hero for defending me on the bus from a bully. He was a stuck up a**hole in high school. My mother is my hero. She thinks she's better than everyone else and she talks to people as if she is. She tells me I raise my kids wrong. And she's pro DP. However, she has never turned her back on me. Supports me in whatever I do, even if she doesn't agree with me (she damn sure will tell me, but she still supports me). I don't know anyone who is perfect. Not even "hero's".
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Post by sclcookie on Jan 4, 2006 9:05:14 GMT -5
Suzanne, I wonder how many on this board work on saving the lives of those who are likely to end up on death row or serving LWOP before they commit their crimes. I wonder how many people on the pro board do the same. If one could do that then perhaps there will be fewer victims. I know this is a bit off the subject.... Suzanne, I do intellectually know that antis in general are not anti victim. However doing things such as calling convicted murderers "heroes" is a bit much. Personally calling them friends is not offensive to me but I am not a MVS and I can understand for a MVS the right for a murderer to have any joy in their life is a dreadfully offensive concept. Also you might say the around invovling the death of Tookie Williams just gives pros more proof that antis are not only anti dp they are into murderer worship. Why is he different to all the other inmates on DR in California.. I suspect on California's Death Row there are maybe a few other candidates who are more likely innocent...and no I am not making some hidden reference to Scott Peterson here. And the murderer worship thing? OMG. I cried when Tookie was executed. And it wasn't just the execution, it was the hate in some of those reporters voice who where clearly pro-dp. I didn't keep up with what was going on too much with Tookies case. I do know he had a lot of supporter trying to save his life. And that's what we all are doing. Please don't insult us by calling us "murder worshipers". You know better than that. My husband was amoung the demonstrator at Richard Cartwright's execution. It doesn't mean he worshiped Rich. It mean simply that he was demonstrating against his execution. All those people in CA were doing was demonstrating against Tookies execution. And you want to know something else? I'll tell you anyway. They were heard loud and clear here in Texas. People who never think about the DP were talking about Tookies execution and though they may not believed that he was innocent, they were against his execution. All those who demonstrated against Tookies execution are my hero's.
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Post by skyloom on Jan 4, 2006 10:53:41 GMT -5
Murder is the unlawful killing of a human. Execution is the lawful killing of a human. Who determines what is lawful? The state. In the U.S., who is the state? It's U-S... US!!! We decide what is going to be legal and what is not going to be legal. Truthfully, I don't think capital punishment is high on the list of political/social issues on people's minds, though. I think the average person just imagines how s/he would feel if a child or a spouse were murdered, and of course their grief and anger would be past mere words. Why would they care about the person who is responsible for their loss? I do think that Tookie's situation started some people thinking, though. If it is found that Virginia executed an innocent individual, that will start more people thinking. True, most states already do not execute murderers either because they have eliminated capital punishment by statute or by default. At the same time, we in the U.S. are frightened silly these days... of crime, of terrorists, even of one another. Maybe the best we can do for now is to make sure that the states where capital punishment has been eliminated don't reverse themselves and also to support legislation that sets up task forces and commissions to investigate state procedures in capital cases. We antis already know that there's no way to fix the system to make it "fair" but legislators and the public in general needs to know this.
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Post by andie on Jan 4, 2006 16:10:37 GMT -5
Okay I already said this in another post but I'll say it again and I'll stress it ITS NOT LIKE THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED MURDERER DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE DP--THEY DID--THEY JUST NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD GET CAUGHT and this whole thing about teaching kids that if a person killed someone its wrong to kill them--a solution to that- no one has to know they've been executed--it won't be such a big thing like televised and crap.
And LWOP is 25 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not your entire life.
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Post by andie on Jan 4, 2006 16:16:31 GMT -5
Suzanne, I wonder how many on this board work on saving the lives of those who are likely to end up on death row or serving LWOP before they commit their crimes. I wonder how many people on the pro board do the same. If one could do that then perhaps there will be fewer victims. I know this is a bit off the subject.... Suzanne, I do intellectually know that antis in general are not anti victim. However doing things such as calling convicted murderers "heroes" is a bit much. Personally calling them friends is not offensive to me but I am not a MVS and I can understand for a MVS the right for a murderer to have any joy in their life is a dreadfully offensive concept. Also you might say the around invovling the death of Tookie Williams just gives pros more proof that antis are not only anti dp they are into murderer worship. Why is he different to all the other inmates on DR in California.. I suspect on California's Death Row there are maybe a few other candidates who are more likely innocent...and no I am not making some hidden reference to Scott Peterson here. And the murderer worship thing? OMG. I cried when Tookie was executed. And it wasn't just the execution, it was the hate in some of those reporters voice who where clearly pro-dp. I didn't keep up with what was going on too much with Tookies case. I do know he had a lot of supporter trying to save his life. And that's what we all are doing. Please don't insult us by calling us "murder worshipers". You know better than that. My husband was amoung the demonstrator at Richard Cartwright's execution. It doesn't mean he worshiped Rich. It mean simply that he was demonstrating against his execution. All those people in CA were doing was demonstrating against Tookies execution. And you want to know something else? I'll tell you anyway. They were heard loud and clear here in Texas. People who never think about the DP were talking about Tookies execution and though they may not believed that he was innocent, they were against his execution. All those who demonstrated against Tookies execution are my hero's. Then I have a question for you? What were the victims saying before they were killed? "Please don't kill me" like Tookie and all the other murderes who are trying to get out of losing their life. I bet if you were to ask those who murdered if they would have knowing that they may get executed if they still would have went on with the act? I don't think they would have. And if they still said yes, then its their problem. They know there was a DP..they know that it could be sentenced to them And the whole hero things. Don't you think those murder victims had good hearts and minds to or is it over looked when there about to be shot?
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Post by judywaits4u on Jan 4, 2006 16:56:43 GMT -5
Okay I already said this in another post but I'll say it again and I'll stress it ITS NOT LIKE THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED MURDERER DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE DP--THEY DID--THEY JUST NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD GET CAUGHT and this whole thing about teaching kids that if a person killed someone its wrong to kill them--a solution to that- no one has to know they've been executed--it won't be such a big thing like televised and crap. And LWOP is 25 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not your entire life. LWOP means for the rest of your natural life, not 25yrs.
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Post by judywaits4u on Jan 4, 2006 16:59:16 GMT -5
And the murderer worship thing? OMG. I cried when Tookie was executed. And it wasn't just the execution, it was the hate in some of those reporters voice who where clearly pro-dp. I didn't keep up with what was going on too much with Tookies case. I do know he had a lot of supporter trying to save his life. And that's what we all are doing. Please don't insult us by calling us "murder worshipers". You know better than that. My husband was amoung the demonstrator at Richard Cartwright's execution. It doesn't mean he worshiped Rich. It mean simply that he was demonstrating against his execution. All those people in CA were doing was demonstrating against Tookies execution. And you want to know something else? I'll tell you anyway. They were heard loud and clear here in Texas. People who never think about the DP were talking about Tookies execution and though they may not believed that he was innocent, they were against his execution. All those who demonstrated against Tookies execution are my hero's. Then I have a question for you? What were the victims saying before they were killed? "Please don't kill me" like Tookie and all the other murderes who are trying to get out of losing their life. I bet if you were to ask those who murdered if they would have knowing that they may get executed if they still would have went on with the act? I don't think they would have. And if they still said yes, then its their problem. They know there was a DP..they know that it could be sentenced to them And the whole hero things. Don't you think those murder victims had good hearts and minds to or is it over looked when there about to be shot? Mostly as an anti-cp you support people despite what they did, not because you believe that they are angels, unless you are positive that the person in question is innocent.
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sdl
New Arrival
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Post by sdl on Jan 5, 2006 3:51:25 GMT -5
Okay I already said this in another post but I'll say it again and I'll stress it ITS NOT LIKE THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED MURDERER DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE DP--THEY DID--THEY JUST NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD GET CAUGHT and this whole thing about teaching kids that if a person killed someone its wrong to kill them--a solution to that- no one has to know they've been executed--it won't be such a big thing like televised and crap. And LWOP is 25 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not your entire life. I know..must be disheartening that Bush hasn't overthrown Martin and installed his pal Stockard Day, right? You must hate living in a country that respects human rights...
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Post by sclcookie on Jan 5, 2006 8:23:11 GMT -5
Okay I already said this in another post but I'll say it again and I'll stress it ITS NOT LIKE THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED MURDERER DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE DP--THEY DID--THEY JUST NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD GET CAUGHT and this whole thing about teaching kids that if a person killed someone its wrong to kill them--a solution to that- no one has to know they've been executed--it won't be such a big thing like televised and crap. And LWOP is 25 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not your entire life. LWOP is 25 years? Which state? LWOP here in Texas is LWOP. Life (correct me if I'm wrong), I believe is 40 years before you become eligible for parole here in Texas. So, who are you trying to convince?
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Post by sclcookie on Jan 5, 2006 8:26:15 GMT -5
And the murderer worship thing? OMG. I cried when Tookie was executed. And it wasn't just the execution, it was the hate in some of those reporters voice who where clearly pro-dp. I didn't keep up with what was going on too much with Tookies case. I do know he had a lot of supporter trying to save his life. And that's what we all are doing. Please don't insult us by calling us "murder worshipers". You know better than that. My husband was amoung the demonstrator at Richard Cartwright's execution. It doesn't mean he worshiped Rich. It mean simply that he was demonstrating against his execution. All those people in CA were doing was demonstrating against Tookies execution. And you want to know something else? I'll tell you anyway. They were heard loud and clear here in Texas. People who never think about the DP were talking about Tookies execution and though they may not believed that he was innocent, they were against his execution. All those who demonstrated against Tookies execution are my hero's. Then I have a question for you? What were the victims saying before they were killed? "Please don't kill me" like Tookie and all the other murderes who are trying to get out of losing their life. I bet if you were to ask those who murdered if they would have knowing that they may get executed if they still would have went on with the act? I don't think they would have. And if they still said yes, then its their problem. They know there was a DP..they know that it could be sentenced to them And the whole hero things. Don't you think those murder victims had good hearts and minds to or is it over looked when there about to be shot? Oh, don't start with me about murder victims! 2 of my dear friends were murdered, a man I loved was murdered (the guy is serving a Life Sentence, not LWOP for his murder) and my great granddad was a sheriff's deputy here in Texas, killed in the line of duty.
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Post by skyloom on Jan 5, 2006 11:14:34 GMT -5
Then I have a question for you? What were the victims saying before they were killed? "Please don't kill me" like Tookie and all the other murderes who are trying to get out of losing their life. I bet if you were to ask those who murdered if they would have knowing that they may get executed if they still would have went on with the act? I don't think they would have. And if they still said yes, then its their problem. They know there was a DP..they know that it could be sentenced to them And the whole hero things. Don't you think those murder victims had good hearts and minds to or is it over looked when there about to be shot? I'm convinced that anyone who commits a murder does not think about the punishment at all... at least not before or at the time s/he's murdering. To wonder if they would have killed if they really expected to be caught, tried, jailed and eventually executed is, IMO, pointless because it's not ever going to happen. Of course murder victims have good hearts, or at least as good as the rest of us. So, here's a question for you. If you were murdered, would you want your killer executed? Would you want your family to feel that they had to attend the trial, the appeals, and the execution? Would you want your family to have to give a victim impact statement? What would you honestly want if it were you and your family and friends?
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Post by janet on Jan 5, 2006 13:47:07 GMT -5
How many times must it be pointed out that the DP is not a deterrent to murder? If that were the case, the murder rates in non DP states would be the highest in the country. The converse it true.
Insofar as good hearts are concerned, I should think there were good hearted and not so good hearted among murder victims. It's unlikely that there would be descrimination based upon the state of their hearts.
There are many heros in this world. That it's possible one's hero could be an individual who has killed, yet exhibited courage, initiative, whatever qualities one deems heroic isn't strange in the least. As leader of the ANC, Nelson Mandala was once considered by the world in general the farthest thing from heroic. Yet, now, this man is revered.
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Post by andie on Jan 5, 2006 18:12:18 GMT -5
Okay I already said this in another post but I'll say it again and I'll stress it ITS NOT LIKE THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED MURDERER DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE DP--THEY DID--THEY JUST NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD GET CAUGHT and this whole thing about teaching kids that if a person killed someone its wrong to kill them--a solution to that- no one has to know they've been executed--it won't be such a big thing like televised and crap. And LWOP is 25 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not your entire life. LWOP is 25 years? Which state? LWOP here in Texas is LWOP. Life (correct me if I'm wrong), I believe is 40 years before you become eligible for parole here in Texas. So, who are you trying to convince? I'm from Canada and in Canada life is 25 years
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Post by judywaits4u on Jan 5, 2006 18:15:30 GMT -5
LWOP is 25 years? Which state? LWOP here in Texas is LWOP. Life (correct me if I'm wrong), I believe is 40 years before you become eligible for parole here in Texas. So, who are you trying to convince? I'm from Canada and in Canada life is 25 years In the USA you have life and LWOP.
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Post by andie on Jan 5, 2006 18:15:59 GMT -5
deleted....disrespectful terms used
You know the rules
hugggz, Suzanne
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