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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 12, 2006 18:11:50 GMT -5
I was just wondering if most people who are anti-death penalty are also against abortion? Because I am almost completely against it. I think if a teenager or anyone who doesn't want a kid accidentally gets pregnant, they should carry the baby in them for 9 months and then give it up for adoption. So many people want kids but can't have them. It's selfish to have an abortion, and it is murder, if you ask me. It is getting rid of a human life. I think abortion should only be legal in cases where the woman was raped. In those cases only, I believe the woman should not have to carry the baby for 9 months inside of them. In any other case I don't feel there is an accuse to take a human life. In fact, birth control is very effective if you don't want to get pregnant! Anyone have any thoughts on the topic?
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Post by skyloom on Oct 17, 2006 12:20:34 GMT -5
I was just wondering if most people who are anti-death penalty are also against abortion? Because I am almost completely against it. I think if a teenager or anyone who doesn't want a kid accidentally gets pregnant, they should carry the baby in them for 9 months and then give it up for adoption. So many people want kids but can't have them. It's selfish to have an abortion, and it is murder, if you ask me. It is getting rid of a human life. I think abortion should only be legal in cases where the woman was raped. In those cases only, I believe the woman should not have to carry the baby for 9 months inside of them. In any other case I don't feel there is an accuse to take a human life. In fact, birth control is very effective if you don't want to get pregnant! Anyone have any thoughts on the topic? As a person who was adopted as an infant, first of all I see adoption only as possibly the only merciful solution to an impossible problem. At some level I knew that I could never be "good enough" or as good as the child my parents could have had if only they could have had a child of their own. That, however, was small compared to the messages that my birthmother received and eventually learned to believe about herself... messages that resonate in her life even sixty years later on. There are literally hundreds of thousands of children waiting to be adopted in foster care or in orphanages... children who actually do have no living parents who could raise them. I truly cannot sympathize with couples who pass them by hoping instead to parent a healthy newborn infant. Madonna is in the process of adopting a child from Malawi whose mother and siblings died and whose father cannot care for him. One TV personality (might have been Meredith Vieira) asked in an unguarded moment why Madonna couldn't have given the father some money so he could have raised his child himself. Good question! So... I have issues with adoption. I used to think I was a little crazy, until I read some research that found that the majority of adoptees, given the hypothetical choice of being adopted or never being born, chose to not be born. I think that if a woman does not want to be pregnant and finds herself pregnant, she should abort the pregnancy as soon as possible. There are dozens of reasons for abortion, some of which are perhaps less "worthy" than others, but I refuse to judge any woman's decision. Not my job. I won't live with the consequences of her choice, and I therefore would not dare judge her reasons. But... if someone tells me that abortion is murder because a human person exists at the moment of conception, then why is abortion not murder if that human person was conceived in rape, in incest, or in a loving sexual encounter? It's still the same human person, is it not? I don't think an embryo is a human person. It is not a human person until it is born. I do think that a fetus is part of a woman's body, and if a woman would not think of cutting off the tip of a finger for no particular reason she should not think of aborting a fetus the same size as the tip of her finger for no particular reason. At the same time, it's sadly necessary for some women to have an entire arm removed for very good reason... the health of her body and her own survival. If she finds she must remove a six pound fetus for the same kinds of reasons, she should.
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 17, 2006 13:29:35 GMT -5
In highschool I had a friend who had an abortion when she was 3 months pregnant! She debated it for a month first. She called me on the phone that night after she had her abortion, and told me that on her way home she stopped at Burger king and pigged out. She said she was glad it was over, and felt relieved and happy with no remorse at all. I didn't say a word, I just listened. But I sure did think alot about how unbelievable it was that she had just killed her child and was now happily pigging out on Burger king. Another friend of mine got pregnant at age 17, carried the child, then gave it up for adoption. I found that very admirable!! To answer your question about the rape thing, yes it is still murder regardless of the circumstance of an abortion. But I think abortion should only be legal in cases of rape because a woman that is raped and gets pregnant because of it should not have to suffer through 9 months of hell and memory of a rape. We are all conceived the same way. What if everybody had abortions? That human fetus is somebody's soul, the beginning of there life...
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Post by pollypolly on Oct 18, 2006 1:49:51 GMT -5
Before becoming a mother I would say that abortion was ok if the pregnancy was the result of rape. ...now I am a mother I say that abortion is wrong whatever the circumstance...there are other options for women out there, why should we have the right to kill a future great inventor or president or even an ordinary human?? Guess being a mother lets you see how precious life really is and a baby is a person that needs love and nuturing to become the best person we can help make it. I dont believe that evil is born I believe that it is bred.
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Post by skyloom on Oct 18, 2006 14:27:11 GMT -5
She called me on the phone that night after she had her abortion, and told me that on her way home she stopped at Burger king and pigged out. She said she was glad it was over, and felt relieved and happy with no remorse at all. That's more often than not the way women feel after an abortion... just glad and relieved that the whole thing is over. I wonder how she felt when she handed over her baby to total strangers to raise, knowing that she would never be able to know if it was even still alive, and knowing that she had no right to ever ask. Or did she even think about that? I wonder how her baby feels now that it's grown? Every pregnancy carried to term involves TWO people, their feelings and their futures. When we lose sight of that fact, we make messes of people's lives. This is a long article, but I think well worth the read. www.openadoption.org/brosnan.htm
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 19, 2006 22:35:29 GMT -5
I heard a good song recently and the lyrics seem to answer the question-What's the point in it all? The song is called The Riddle, by:Five for Fighting. I'm not gonna put the whole song on here, but I'll put some of the lyrics. There was a man back in '95 Whose heart ran out of summers But before he died, I asked him Wait, what's the sense in life Come over me, Come over me He said, son why you got to sing that tune Catch a Dylan song or some eclipse of the moon Let an angel swing and make you swoon Then you will see..You will see Picked up my kid from school today Did you learn anything Cause in the world today You can't live in a castle far away So talk to me Come talk to me Dad, I'm big but we're smaller than small In the scheme of things, well we're nothing at all- Still every mother's child sings a lonely song There are secrets that we still have left to find There have been mysteries from the beginning of time There are answers we're not wise enough to see He said...You looking for a clue-I love you free... The batter swings and the summer flies As I look into my angel's eyes A song plays on while the moon is hiding over me- Something comes over me I guess we're big and I guess we're small If you think about it man you know we got it all Cause we're all we got on this bouncing ball Here's a riddle for you Find the answer There's a reason for the world You and I...
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Post by happyhaddock on Oct 20, 2006 13:47:20 GMT -5
I think if a teenager or anyone who doesn't want a kid accidentally gets pregnant, they should carry the baby in them for 9 months and then give it up for adoption. Adoption IS abortion.
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 20, 2006 19:13:40 GMT -5
I think if a teenager or anyone who doesn't want a kid accidentally gets pregnant, they should carry the baby in them for 9 months and then give it up for adoption. Adoption IS abortion. Sorry you feel that way, and I'm sure you have reasons. If the right kind of person is doing the adopting, then it shouldn't feel that way.
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Post by sas666 on Oct 21, 2006 8:54:50 GMT -5
Who are we to judge? If a teenager accidentally get pregnant it should be up to that individual what happens to the baby.
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 21, 2006 9:18:29 GMT -5
Who are we to judge? If a teenager accidentally get pregnant it should be up to that individual what happens to the baby. No one is "judging" anyone here. We are giving opinions, and if you want to give yours, go for it.
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Post by skyloom on Oct 23, 2006 13:55:44 GMT -5
Interesting point of view. A few of my friends like the phrase "psychological abortion" as defined by Dr. John Sonne, and one adopted friend was a great e-mail fan of the doctor. Have you read Dr. Sonne's work? Here you go: www.adoptioncrossroads.org/proopen.htmI'm not sure how I feel about the analysis, really. I tend to think of adoption and abortion as two separate choices, abortion being the choice to not be pregnant and adoption being the choice to not be a parent. So, I tend to think Dr. Sonne is muddying the waters a bit by conflating the two issues. But I agree with some others of his points. I really like Fr. Brosnan's article much better!
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Post by skyloom on Oct 23, 2006 14:12:09 GMT -5
Sorry you feel that way, and I'm sure you have reasons. If the right kind of person is doing the adopting, then it shouldn't feel that way. Well, I'd hope that every child who is adopted is placed in a good home, but the adoption doesn't rest only on the quality of adoptive parents. Ever read a really interesting book that was missing the first several chapters?
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Post by skyloom on Oct 23, 2006 14:28:21 GMT -5
So many people want kids but can't have them. It's selfish to have an abortion... Not meaning to pick on you, pumpkinpie, because generally I tend to agree with your posts, but I take exception to the idea that any woman should carry a pregnancy to term just because she feels obligated to help someone who can't have a child. If she wants to do something like this (i.e. surrogacy) then it should be a carefully thought out sort of choice... and I'm not really too certain about how that choice will feel to the child she has at some point down the line. At any rate, I think it's something a woman should plan out and think about before she is pregnant. Again, there are already thousands of children waiting in foster care for a family to adopt them. Couples who can't have a child should consider adopting one of these children. I've heard all the arguments for why they don't, but you get no guarantee that the child you have in the usual way will be perfect and all infants eventually grow up, so there ya go! People who insist on "designer infants" maybe don't really want to parent real, live, unique human beings.
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 23, 2006 14:46:00 GMT -5
So many people want kids but can't have them. It's selfish to have an abortion... Not meaning to pick on you, pumpkinpie, because generally I tend to agree with your posts, but I take exception to the idea that any woman should carry a pregnancy to term just because she feels obligated to help someone who can't have a child. If she wants to do something like this (i.e. surrogacy) then it should be a carefully thought out sort of choice... and I'm not really too certain about how that choice will feel to the child she has at some point down the line. At any rate, I think it's something a woman should plan out and think about before she is pregnant. Again, there are already thousands of children waiting in foster care for a family to adopt them. Couples who can't have a child should consider adopting one of these children. I've heard all the arguments for why they don't, but you get no guarantee that the child you have in the usual way will be perfect and all infants eventually grow up, so there ya go! People who insist on "designer infants" maybe don't really want to parent real, live, unique human beings. Yes, a woman should carry the baby full term, then give it up for adoption. And why shouldn't she help all those women who cannot become pregnant? Why shouldn't she help save and protect, and allow this new human a life? You say that couples who can't have children should consider adopting a child in foster care. But why, if that child is going to feel "aborted" anyway no matter how much he or she is loved? If that child is loved and accepted fully by there new adoptive parents, then what your saying is there is nothing those new parents can ever do to make the child feel like they belong and are loved. And because of this you are saying that child is better off dead. Come on, all of our lives suck at times, but there is usually something to live for, adopted or not.
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Post by pumpkinpie on Oct 23, 2006 22:37:13 GMT -5
Sorry you feel that way, and I'm sure you have reasons. If the right kind of person is doing the adopting, then it shouldn't feel that way. Well, I'd hope that every child who is adopted is placed in a good home, but the adoption doesn't rest only on the quality of adoptive parents. Ever read a really interesting book that was missing the first several chapters? Where is the appreciation for those who devote there lives to adopting these children, giving them a good home, nourishing them, providing for them, raising them and loving them like there own? Shouldn't they appreciate being adopted by good people rather than being left in an orphanage with no family ever?
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