Dera Mike, Dear Sadtruth,

[littlepeople]

Dear Mike, Dear Sadtruth,

I am writing you an open letter as I do think someone like me has valid points to put forward regarding Capital Punishment.

First I would like to thank you to have landed your arguments in this site, as long as you restrain from personal insults and celebrations over the death of inmates, while their being put to death.
I have been following this site with interest and since your arrival I must admit that Capital Punishment discussions upped a gear.

First let me introduce my self. I am an European and a sculptor of latin descent, born in southern Africa and an UK citizen . The reason I stumble in this site is because I am at the moment making a piece around the very issue of capital punishment.
I wanted to find out a bit more about it and CCADP gave me kick start information I require. I have also been looking at the Pros sites too.

As you are aware in Europe and the majority of the rest of the Democratic world, capital punishment has been eradicated . One of the reasons that it happened is because it is classified as a HUMAN RIGHTS issue. What I mean by that is that taking someone to death is a form of TORTURE.
So for me as an European, STATE SPONSORED HOMICIDE IS A CRIME IN IT SELF.
And at this stage you might think, that is not of my business what the USA does or does not with its constitution. But in that you are wrong, because the USA as been policing and invading the rest of the world as if it was theirs to pick and chose and that gives me the right to voice my views as well as to push in the international arena changes in your laws.
Recently the States' and Britain invaded Iraq over human rights abuse,as well as to introduce democracy by force. And I ask you this, what right does the USA have to invade another country over human right abuses when the USA does not follow its principle. We are also witnessing the result. (victims all around).

I do agree with you in some respects. When it comes to pen pals the sentimentalism surrounded by it is almost painful to witness. But is it not true that this is due to the fact that we are dealing with life/death, and this does bring emotionally charged behaviour?
Yes most of the pen pals are probably woman and some quite depressed woman looking for a good purpose in life. And some get sucked into the romanticism of danger, but it is not true too that their input as been valid too.
I tell you something these are most certainly the voters politicians look at with fright. And they are getting bigger by the day.

I too felt uneasy with some cases. Specially the case of the serial killer killed recently. He showed to the end why he actually killed. Until the end he manipulated his sympathisers voicing his high Moral theories over the status of the victims relatives, I for once didn’t buy it . However just because he was who he was doesn't give the State the right to do exactly the same.

I was under the impression that prisons exist not only to punish but also to rehabilitate. And wouldn't be much better to have murderers serving the world community, like prosthetic limbs for the victims of land mines (mainly sold by the USA) around the world? This would serve too purposes, rehabilitation and it would save lives too.

The uncensored diaries have been an eye opener to a lot of people because of the level of isolation these people are. This is actually torture. I do understand that the victims have never had a choice and that is the immediate feeling of the —serves you right, bastard/bitch!— but the thing is that the State needs to bypass personal feelings to set up a system that does protect as well as does not go against international law.

I have been following with interest the absence of woman on DR in this site . And for argument sake goes in your favour. The Taboo of the Anti DR people, is due to the fact that most cases have children involved? I do find this absence quite revealing of a culture that is naive and conservative even in this subject. Woman on DR should be more visible, maybe would be good to have a woman DR as the next uncensored diarist. The only time when they are on the spot is when they are about to be killed. I think the people in here should do more to voice in their behalf.
And you might ask and rightly so, why don't I do it? Well just for the simple fact that I don't know enough yet to be vociferous on personal cases.

I will not go to the area of the innocent on DR because this is by itself why it should be eradicated, if nothing else sticks in Pro DR reasoning.


So my dear friends, State sponsored Homicide is a CRIME. And the way DR prisoners are treated is TORTURE under Human Rights International Law. Your government talks about Chinas Human Rights abuses and your government does exactly the same.

I am hoping to further this argument with you and who ever wants too, continue.




yours ,

Little people from Europe

[Mo-DAWG]

littlepeople said:

Dear Mike, Dear Sadtruth,

I am writing you an open letter as I do think someone like me has valid points to put forward regarding Capital Punishment.

First I would like to thank you to have landed your arguments in this site, as long as you restrain from personal insults and celebrations over the death of inmates, while their being put to death.
I have been following this site with interest and since your arrival I must admit that Capital Punishment discussions upped a gear.

First let me introduce my self. I am an European and a sculptor of latin descent, born in southern Africa and an UK citizen . The reason I stumble in this site is because I am at the moment making a piece around the very issue of capital punishment.
I wanted to find out a bit more about it and CCADP gave me kick start information I require. I have also been looking at the Pros sites too.

As you are aware in Europe and the majority of the rest of the Democratic world, capital punishment has been eradicated . One of the reasons that it happened is because it is classified as a HUMAN RIGHTS issue. What I mean by that is that taking someone to death is a form of TORTURE.
So for me as an European, STATE SPONSORED HOMICIDE IS A CRIME IN IT SELF.
And at this stage you might think, that is not of my business what the USA does or does not with its constitution. But in that you are wrong, because the USA as been policing and invading the rest of the world as if it was theirs to pick and chose and that gives me the right to voice my views as well as to push in the international arena changes in your laws.
Recently the States' and Britain invaded Iraq over human rights abuse,as well as to introduce democracy by force. And I ask you this, what right does the USA have to invade another country over human right abuses when the USA does not follow its principle. We are also witnessing the result. (victims all around).

I do agree with you in some respects. When it comes to pen pals the sentimentalism surrounded by it is almost painful to witness. But is it not true that this is due to the fact that we are dealing with life/death, and this does bring emotionally charged behaviour?
Yes most of the pen pals are probably woman and some quite depressed woman looking for a good purpose in life. And some get sucked into the romanticism of danger, but it is not true too that their input as been valid too.
I tell you something these are most certainly the voters politicians look at with fright. And they are getting bigger by the day.

I too felt uneasy with some cases. Specially the case of the serial killer killed recently. He showed to the end why he actually killed. Until the end he manipulated his sympathisers voicing his high Moral theories over the status of the victims relatives, I for once didn’t buy it . However just because he was who he was doesn't give the State the right to do exactly the same.

I was under the impression that prisons exist not only to punish but also to rehabilitate. And wouldn't be much better to have murderers serving the world community, like prosthetic limbs for the victims of land mines (mainly sold by the USA) around the world? This would serve too purposes, rehabilitation and it would save lives too.

The uncensored diaries have been an eye opener to a lot of people because of the level of isolation these people are. This is actually torture. I do understand that the victims have never had a choice and that is the immediate feeling of the —serves you right, bastard/bitch!— but the thing is that the State needs to bypass personal feelings to set up a system that does protect as well as does not go against international law.

I have been following with interest the absence of woman on DR in this site . And for argument sake goes in your favour. The Taboo of the Anti DR people, is due to the fact that most cases have children involved? I do find this absence quite revealing of a culture that is naive and conservative even in this subject. Woman on DR should be more visible, maybe would be good to have a woman DR as the next uncensored diarist. The only time when they are on the spot is when they are about to be killed. I think the people in here should do more to voice in their behalf.
And you might ask and rightly so, why don't I do it? Well just for the simple fact that I don't know enough yet to be vociferous on personal cases.

I will not go to the area of the innocent on DR because this is by itself why it should be eradicated, if nothing else sticks in Pro DR reasoning.


So my dear friends, State sponsored Homicide is a CRIME. And the way DR prisoners are treated is TORTURE under Human Rights International Law. Your government talks about Chinas Human Rights abuses and your government does exactly the same.

I am hoping to further this argument with you and who ever wants too, continue.




yours ,

Little people from Europe

wow..thats a great and impressing post LITTLEPEOPLE...my biggest respect for that....
+++ flowers to you +++ ....and i mean it...
very best wishes
Mo-DAWG

[CCADP]

Hi there -

There are a bunch of women on the CCADP site - in Texas : Brittany Holberg; Darlie Routier; Pam Perrillo (now resentenced); Cathy Henderson; in CA Cathy Thompson; Kerry Lyn Dalton; and Rosie Alfaro and in Florida Virginia Lazelere...; Carolyn King in Pennsylvania; Lynda Lyon who has been executed in Alabama;Wanda Jean Allen executed in Alabama; Bettie Beets executed in Texas, Kelly Gissendaner in Georgia; and a few others (these I remember offhand.) So we have about 17 percent of the women on death row - there are about 70 in the US - on our prisoners pages; and about 25 percent of the men on death row on our prisoner pages (near 1000 of 4000).

If anyone wants to send CCADPs outreach form to anyone else - women or men in states not well represented please do :

www.ccadp.org/outreach.htm

As for the comments on penpals - its NOT mostly women seeking romance; from the people I have heard from in the 8 years of doing this site. Thats a fallacy - those are the ones we hear of in the media; and some on this site are in that position; but the vast majority are human rights activists seeking to make a one on one difference in the DP. Just as many men as women. Just as many happily married as unattached; and more that would never think of dating a DR prisoner than those that would.
The tradition of writing death row prisoners has gone on for years among amnesty activists; church groups; college student classes etc.

Who writes?

Well -
actress Susan Sarandon (whose penpal just got executed)
singer Steve Earle (Whose penpal was executed in 98)
Famous Actor and Activist Howard Zinn (look him up!)
and :
priests; nuns, ministers, buddhist spiritual advisors, 1st grade teachers, doctors, lawyers, law students, psychology students, social workers, movie actors and actresses, artists, television presenters, the wife of a boxing legend, politicians, well known writers, human rights activists.

THATS who writes to prisoners.

[littlepeople]

I do appologise for not making myself clear, I meant this particular site, not your main one.
And also I am here to be educated in may respects .
If I sounded arrogant over penpals was never my intention.

[Mo-DAWG]

littlepeople said:

I do appologise for not making myself clear, I meant this particular site, not your main one.
And also I am here to be educated in may respects .
If I sounded arrogant over penpals was never my intention.

i dont think you sounded arrogant LITTLEPEOPLE...well there were a few assumptions about penpals but i didnt say anything to that cuz i know you´ll find out yourself in time when you keep on visiting this site..
Mo-DAWG

[CCADP]

not at all Little

I just thought I'd take the time to mention the penpals thing; cause a lot of people have the same impression; and its just not fair to all the wonderful people who take time from their busy lives to shed a little light on people who have been condemned.

I thought it a great post and just wanted to clear up that little part of it

[mikebook]

We hit Iraq to stop state-sponsored terrorism. My opinion towards people that write to death row inmates or inmates in general is to be very careful. I am not going to tell them that is wrong, it is their right to do so if they wish. Michael Ross was a very scary person. We are better off without him. Prisons are there to rehabilitate. however, you cannot force someone to change, just because you want them to. You have to give them a reason to change themselves. I believe that education in prison is very important. If people have an education or a trade, they have far more of a chance of staying out of prison because they work. however, the current political climate in the US is to lock people up...
The State does not murder people. The State is there for law and order. If the criminals would stop the threat and carrying out of capitol punishment, I would be for stopping the Death Penalty. However, that is not going to happen.
If you want to talk more, please PM me at this site or use my e-mail address.

[truth1]

littlepeople said:

Dear Mike, Dear Sadtruth,

I am writing you an open letter as I do think someone like me has valid points to put forward regarding Capital Punishment.

First I would like to thank you to have landed your arguments in this site, as long as you restrain from personal insults and celebrations over the death of inmates, while their being put to death.
I have been following this site with interest and since your arrival I must admit that Capital Punishment discussions upped a gear.

First let me introduce my self. I am an European and a sculptor of latin descent, born in southern Africa and an UK citizen . The reason I stumble in this site is because I am at the moment making a piece around the very issue of capital punishment.
I wanted to find out a bit more about it and CCADP gave me kick start information I require. I have also been looking at the Pros sites too.

As you are aware in Europe and the majority of the rest of the Democratic world, capital punishment has been eradicated . One of the reasons that it happened is because it is classified as a HUMAN RIGHTS issue. What I mean by that is that taking someone to death is a form of TORTURE.
So for me as an European, STATE SPONSORED HOMICIDE IS A CRIME IN IT SELF.
And at this stage you might think, that is not of my business what the USA does or does not with its constitution. But in that you are wrong, because the USA as been policing and invading the rest of the world as if it was theirs to pick and chose and that gives me the right to voice my views as well as to push in the international arena changes in your laws.
Recently the States' and Britain invaded Iraq over human rights abuse,as well as to introduce democracy by force. And I ask you this, what right does the USA have to invade another country over human right abuses when the USA does not follow its principle. We are also witnessing the result. (victims all around).

I do agree with you in some respects. When it comes to pen pals the sentimentalism surrounded by it is almost painful to witness. But is it not true that this is due to the fact that we are dealing with life/death, and this does bring emotionally charged behaviour?
Yes most of the pen pals are probably woman and some quite depressed woman looking for a good purpose in life. And some get sucked into the romanticism of danger, but it is not true too that their input as been valid too.
I tell you something these are most certainly the voters politicians look at with fright. And they are getting bigger by the day.

I too felt uneasy with some cases. Specially the case of the serial killer killed recently. He showed to the end why he actually killed. Until the end he manipulated his sympathisers voicing his high Moral theories over the status of the victims relatives, I for once didn’t buy it . However just because he was who he was doesn't give the State the right to do exactly the same.

I was under the impression that prisons exist not only to punish but also to rehabilitate. And wouldn't be much better to have murderers serving the world community, like prosthetic limbs for the victims of land mines (mainly sold by the USA) around the world? This would serve too purposes, rehabilitation and it would save lives too.

The uncensored diaries have been an eye opener to a lot of people because of the level of isolation these people are. This is actually torture. I do understand that the victims have never had a choice and that is the immediate feeling of the —serves you right, bastard/bitch!— but the thing is that the State needs to bypass personal feelings to set up a system that does protect as well as does not go against international law.

I have been following with interest the absence of woman on DR in this site . And for argument sake goes in your favour. The Taboo of the Anti DR people, is due to the fact that most cases have children involved? I do find this absence quite revealing of a culture that is naive and conservative even in this subject. Woman on DR should be more visible, maybe would be good to have a woman DR as the next uncensored diarist. The only time when they are on the spot is when they are about to be killed. I think the people in here should do more to voice in their behalf.
And you might ask and rightly so, why don't I do it? Well just for the simple fact that I don't know enough yet to be vociferous on personal cases.

I will not go to the area of the innocent on DR because this is by itself why it should be eradicated, if nothing else sticks in Pro DR reasoning.


So my dear friends, State sponsored Homicide is a CRIME. And the way DR prisoners are treated is TORTURE under Human Rights International Law. Your government talks about Chinas Human Rights abuses and your government does exactly the same.

I am hoping to further this argument with you and who ever wants too, continue.




yours ,

Little people from Europe

I do believe Bush sticks his nose into places it doesn't belong. However, you should also blame that lap dog of his (Tony Blair).

[CCADP]

I do believe Bush sticks his nose into places it doesn't belong. However, you should also blame that lap dog of his (Tony Blair).

hear; hear!!! I CONCUR!!!

[littlepeople]

MIke,

Capital punishment is a form of torture under International Law. I.e.a crime

Most African Countries stopped Capital Punishment because they joined International Law within the Human Rights agenda.

Iraq was invaded because of oil, and humans rights abuses in the 80es . Get your facts right. Terrorism in Iraq surfaced with the invasion.

And rehabilitation isn't for sure being kept in a cell for 23 hours a day.

And no Mike I do not intend to write you personally, I did write an open letter, not a private message.The reason for this is to have your voice heard on the subject in its entirety, not as a “Punch and Judy “fight over individual cases. But as someone else mentioned already, you probably don’t know much about it the PRO DR argument either. So no reasonable argument than.Well, what can I say.

[littlepeople]

Warden,
Tony is a lapdog nothing else. No need to loose time on him.

[mikebook]

Most prisoners are not in a cell 23 hours a day. Texas and Florida both require inmates to work. They can go to classes. They can research their cases. They do have chances. You need to come to the US and tour a prison. I would suggest that you come to the Tampa Bay area and go to Zephyr Hills Correctional. Also, you could go to Clearwater Beach, the Dali Museum, and see a Devil Rays baseball game. Lots to do in Florida...

[truth1]

littlepeople said:

Dear Mike, Dear Sadtruth,
He showed to the end why he actually killed. Until the end he manipulated his sympathisers voicing his high Moral theories over the status of the victims relatives, I for once didn’t buy it . However just because he was who he was doesn't give the State the right to do exactly the same.

I was under the impression that prisons exist not only to punish but also to rehabilitate.

The uncensored diaries have been an eye opener to a lot of people because of the level of isolation these people are. This is actually torture. I do understand that the victims have never had a choice and that is the immediate feeling of the —serves you right, bastard/bitch!— but the thing is that the State needs to bypass personal feelings to set up a system that does protect as well as does not go against international law.


Little people from Europe

Alright. Where to begin. First of all, to argue in the favor of rehabilitation is to argue that the people on death row were useful members of society. I think it is safe to say that many of them were NOT useful members of society. What I think you are missing is that there are laws in The United States. Some of these laws say that if you commit capital murder, you may be put to death. Now, if you decide to commit capital murder, knowing full well of the consequences you may face, then you deserve exactly what you get.
That is like feeling sorry for someone that gets a speeding ticket. They knew there were laws against speeding. They decided to do it anyway.
As far as international law is concerned--forget it. It is a bit of a double standard when you would like to invoke international law while the murderers would choose to ignore it. Read that again. It is really important. Do you honestly think instituting international law would make a bit of difference. I am talking about making a positive difference on society. How would people (other than the murderers) benefit?

[littlepeople]

Mike,
you still havent given me an objective answer.
Iput in my letter to you, that I belive Capital Punishment is a Crime and Why.
Rehabilitation an Alternative and Why.
So why dont you give me a good enough statment to your belives?

[Lili]

mikebook said:

We hit Iraq to stop state-sponsored terrorism.

Don’t you think that you should tidy your own yard before looking through the fence for neighbor’s trash? Death sentence is state sponsored terrorism too!!